Hide Skill Confusion

[Markn]

I DM one group and just recently started playing in another group. This new group happens to do Hide differently than we do which is making me wonder if we have been doing it wrong. It seems fairly simple but I just want to be sure.

If a rogue has cover (say hiding around the corner of a wall) and makes a hide check of which no one is able to spot, does he become visible (that is no longer hidden) when he comes out around the corner because he no longer has cover or can he travel hidden right up to someone and then attempt to sneak attack (with a -20 for being in combat IIRC)?

In other words, once you lose cover are you no longer hidden?

Thanks.

 

[blargney the second]

Complete Adventurer has expanded rules for Hide that let you sneak up on people when there's no cover in the Skills & Feats chapter.

 

[Markn]

So you are saying you need cover then and without cover you are visible?

 

[mikebr99]

You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a hide check. The C.Adv rules expansion on the hide check allows you to travel x feet away from cover/concealment based on the number of ranks you have in Hide.

Mike

 

[irdeggman]

Yes you need to make another hide check if you are moving.

You can make a hide attempt while moving, but if you've hidden and then move you must use the CAdv expansion or make another attempt (with penalty for moving dependent on speed).

It should be remembered that a 5 ft step is not considered "moving".

Hide is normally done as part of movement and usually doesn't require a separate action.

But if you've changed the conditions of your hide then you must make another check. If you've hidden behind a wall (note that the rules state you don't even usually need to make a hide check when behind a wall since no one can see you) and then move out in the open you need to make another hide check and hope that you are not in plains sight as soon as you come around the wall since then you can't even make a check normally.

You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

 

[Nail]

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide Check."

Easy enough. If you don't have these things, you can't make a Hide check. If you are away from your cover or concealment (core rules only), you can't Hide. Period.

 

[Mistwell]

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide Check."

Easy enough. If you don't have these things, you can't make a Hide check. If you are away from your cover or concealment (core rules only), you can't Hide. Period.

Just so everyone knows that Nail is referring to the PHB rules only. Complete Adventurer says:

"You can also use this option to sneak up on someone from a hiding place. For every 5 feet of open space between you and the target, you take a -5 penalty on your Hide check. If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn't notice you until you attack or make some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you."

 

[irdeggman]

Just so everyone knows that Nail is referring to the PHB rules only. Complete Adventurer says:

"You can also use this option to sneak up on someone from a hiding place. For every 5 feet of open space between you and the target, you take a -5 penalty on your Hide check. If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn't notice you until you attack or make some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you."

Right and it also requires 5 ranks in hide to be able to do.

Essentially the rule is that you don't get to keep your hide check when moving from cover.

You must make another one and can't even do that unless there is cover or concealment or you have 5 ranks in hide and are using the Comp Adv Expanded Rules.

 

[Markn]

Just for the sake of argument, lets talk about PHB only for now.

So everyone is saying, you need to have cover to make the initial hide check but after that cover is essentially irrelevant. Is that right? In other words, the rogue makes his hide check, leaves his place of cover or concealment so that he can approach the enemy at which point the enemy can try to spot the rogue but if they fail their spot check he is still hidden.

My impression has alway been that once you leave cover/concealment you become visible no matter what. Huh.

 

[frankthedm]

My impression has alway been that once you leave cover/concealment you become visible no matter what. Huh.

That is correct. Without that cover/concealment you are no longer able to hide. You re-enter your foe's LOS and he sees you provided we are only talking about the PHB.