Hideous Blow invocation and crtitical hits

[Perun]

If a warlock using the hideous blow invocation with his melee weapon scores a critical hit, is the damage from the eldritch blast also multiplied according to the weapon's critical modifier?

Say a 5th-level warlock scores a critical with his dagger, would the damage be (1d4 + Str)x2 plus 3d6, or (1d4 + Str plus 3d6)x2?

I've looked in Complete Arcane, D&D errata, and the D&D FAQ, but I couldn't find anything covering this.

The relevant part in the invocation description says: "If you hit, the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast [...] This damage is in addition to any weapon damage that you deal with your attack [...]".

When you compare it to sneak attack (both have similar advancement, topping out at 9d6 (eldritch blast) and 10d6 (sneak attack), but you can use hideous blow whole day long (as long as the target isn't immune to magic) and sneak attack is usable only under specific set of circumstances.

Is there anything claryfing this issue?

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

 

[Drowbane]

Hideous Blow is only good for one attack, while you can deal Sneak Attack with every hit you land (with some assumptions; flanking, etc)

Anytime extra damage is expressed in dice, it is not multiplied on a crit.

edit: keyword there is "extra"... if you roll a natural 20 and confirm with a normal Eldritch Blast you would multiply your total damage by 2.

 

[Gloombunny]

If the person is affected as if struck by your eldtrich blast, and people struck by your eldritch blast take double the Xd6 when it's a crit...

 

[glass]

If the person is affected as if struck by your eldtrich blast, and people struck by your eldritch blast take double the Xd6 when it's a crit...

When it's an eldritch blast crit. It isn't; it is a weapon crit.

The eldritch blast damage is explicitly additional damage, which as Drowbane correctly state is not multiplied when it comes in the form of dice.


glass.

 

[Gloombunny]

I see it as explicitly not being damage added to your weapon hit. But whatever... I'm not Perun's GM, obviously.

 

[gnfnrf]

The rules are unclear on this subject. The precedent seems to be that it would not multiply, since other piggyback effects do not.

However, this effectively nerfs Hideous Blow beyond all comprehension. I can spend an invocation for the ability to make regular attacks (instead of touch attacks) which provoke, and have only 5' range, and can't critical. And what do I get? An extra 1d6+2 base weapon damage.

So, what happens if it can critical? Does it critical on the weapon threat/multiplier? That would make a rapier warlock (or a scythe warlock) scary scary. Maybe it should critical 20/x2, but checks the same attack roll. Probably more balanced, but produces weird rules situations.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Hypersmurf]

... but produces weird rules situations.

Probably why it can't, then

I see it as explicitly not being damage added to your weapon hit. But whatever... I'm not Perun's GM, obviously.

Complete Arcane discusses delivery of touch spells with an unarmed strike (instead of a touch attack), and notes that if the unarmed strike crits, the strike damage is multiplied, but the spell damage is not.

Hideous Blow, Arcane Channelling, weapons with the Spell Storing ability, and so on have a similar effect - adding the effect of a spell or SLA to a melee attack - so precedent has been that the same logic is applied.

-Hyp.

 

[Dalamar]

Well, technically the wording of the ability in Complete Arcane is that you make a melee attack with eldritch blast and, as a bonus, get to add weapon damage to it. That would mean you don't get to add the weapon's bonus to attack rolls or what have you. And the effect crits on a 20 for x2 damage, with the weapon's damage not being multiplied as that is the rider effect in this case.

Of course, I just ignore Hideous Blow in favor of Eldritch Glaive.

 

[Gloombunny]

Complete Arcane discusses delivery of touch spells with an unarmed strike (instead of a touch attack), and notes that if the unarmed strike crits, the strike damage is multiplied, but the spell damage is not.

Hideous Blow, Arcane Channelling, weapons with the Spell Storing ability, and so on have a similar effect - adding the effect of a spell or SLA to a melee attack - so precedent has been that the same logic is applied.

That seems like a bit of a stretch to me. It's not even clear if that rule (we're talking about the one on p. 74, right?) is meant to apply in general or to be considered part of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. And either way, Hideous Blow isn't a touch spell being delivered via an attack. It's a specific invocation which in and of itself involves making a melee attack.

I take "the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast" at its word. A target struck by an eldritch blast takes double the damage if you rolled a 20 and then confirmed it. (So I would say that if you're using a rapier for your hideous blow, then on an 18 or 19 the rapier damage can be doubled but not the blast damage, and if you're using a battleaxe then a 20 means triple axe damage and double blast damage.)

Anyway... this is a bit of a pointless argument, I think. Obviously it's not clear-cut either way, and for all we know the writer(s) and editor(s) never even thought of it. When you get to this level of extrapolation from what's actually printed, it's a bit silly to be a stickler for RAW. So the real question is, should hideous blow double the eldritch blast damage on a crit? Which is something a GM will have to decide for themselves. Or they can just ignore the damn invocation in favor of eldritch glaive.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Well, technically the wording of the ability in Complete Arcane is that you make a melee attack with eldritch blast and, as a bonus, get to add weapon damage to it. That would mean you don't get to add the weapon's bonus to attack rolls or what have you. And the effect crits on a 20 for x2 damage, with the weapon's damage not being multiplied as that is the rider effect in this case.

WOW!

That makes me want to look at it, again. We've got a warlock in the party and his player was pretty upset when he learned he had to make a concentration check on a hideous blow when in a threatened square. We ruled that the extra damage from the hideous blow wasn't multiplied on a critical, either. But, if the wording's technically the other way 'round... That's a whole different ball of wax...

I'm gonna check it out.

Thank you.