D&D (2024) High tier Fighter − the mythic warrior

[Tonguez]

Though to be fair, the Fighter really didn't have an "army". At most you're looking at 1 7th level Fighter, 20 0-level cavalry and 100 0-level infantry. According to what I've seen on the internet, a cavalry regiment alone during the medieval period was 600 to 900 men!

Edit: forgot the possibility of 30 1st-level infantry. Still, 151 guys isn't really the kind of force you can knock over a small nation with.

French records show 12th century Banneretum leading 50-100 men-at-arms. Which accords with a PC Hero as a single ‘knight’ with his immediate retinue.
Armies were made up of multiple such retinues and peasant levies not just a single leader

 

[Shardstone]

True. Some OSR games have done a better job of handling the army and land aspects of old school game play, and I would (and have) turned to those when desired.

What games?

 

[Micah Sweet]

What games?

My favorite for that is Adventurer Conquerer King, which explicitly places emphasis on the domain game and mass combat, as well as a lot of other details important to old school play.

 

[Hussar]

Wow. Managed to get, what, 20 posts in before being told how wrong we are for wanting a mythic fighter?

Yeesh.

 

[Yaarel]

The following table is suggestive of where things fit in while advancing into higher tiers. For example, to wrestle or carry a Huge elephant or giant is something one might expect to see around the Legend tier (17-20). The table is observational. A particular character might be lower tier in one area and higher tier in an other area. The damage per round baseline corresponds roughly to a Warlock with the intended Eldritch Blast Invocations. Optimal damage can sometimes double this baseline. Anything less than baseline is subpar for the level. The spell damage smooths out the damage increase from the various spells across slots. Notice that Fireball deals anomalously high damage.


RELATIVE POWER AT EACH TIER

D&D Tier	Levels	Pro	Ability	Ability Score	Size	Magic	Spell Damage: Single Target by Highest Slot	Spell Damage: Multi Target by Highest Slot	DPR Baseline 4 + (1½ x Level)
Zero	0	+0	−1
Zero	0	+0	+0	(10)	M
Zero	0	+1	+0
Zero	0	+1	+1	(12)
Student	1-2	+2	+1				9 (2d8)	7 (2d6)	5-7
Student	3-4	+2	+2	(14)		+1	18 (4d8)	14 (4d6)	8-10
Professional	5-6	+3	+2				27 (6d8)	21 (6d6)	11-13
Professional	7-8	+3	+3	(16)			36 (8d8)	28 (8d6)	14-16
Master	9-10	+4	+3			+2	45 (10d8)	35 (10d6)	17-19
Master	11-12	+4	+4	(18)	L		54 (12d8)	42 (12d6)	20-22
Grandmaster	13-14	+5	+4				63 (14d8)	49 (14d6)	23-25
Grandmaster	15-16	+5	+5	(20)		+3	72 (16d8)	56 (16d6)	26-28
Legend	17-18	+6	+5				81 (18d8)	63 (18d6)	29-31
Legend	19-20	+6	+6	(22)	H		90 (20d8)	70 (20d6)	32-34
Epic	21-22	+7	+6			+4	...	...	35-37
Epic	23-24	+7	+7	(24)					38-40
Epic	25-26	+8	+7						...
Epic	27-28	+8	+8	(26)	G	+5
Epic	29-30	+9	+8
Epic	31-32	+9	+9	(28)
Epic	33-34	+10	+9			+6
Epic	35-36	+10	+10	(30)	G+
Epic	37-38	+11	+10
Epic	39-40	+11	+11	(32)		+7

 

[kilpatds]

The following table is suggestive of where things fit in while advancing into higher tiers.

I'd ask for some changes to the DPR columns, "DPR (optimal)" and "DPR (uncomfortable)" or something, where DPR-optimal should look a lot like the single-target-highest-level-spell column, and DPR-uncomfortable should look about what you have as DPR. If what-you-do-is-damage, your damage should look a lot better ... unless you're being hindered significantly in some way.

 

[Yaarel]

I'd ask for some changes to the DPR columns, "DPR (optimal)" and "DPR (uncomfortable)" or something, where DPR-optimal should look a lot like the single-target-highest-level-spell column, and DPR-uncomfortable should look about what you have as DPR. If what-you-do-is-damage, your damage should look a lot better ... unless you're being hindered significantly in some way.

I am less familiar with dpr calculations. In agreement with Treantmonk, the table uses the "baseline" dpr, that uses Warlock Eldritch Blast Invocations as a standard measure. Any amount less than this is subpar, and any amount more than this is optimal. Based on various char op efforts, roughly twice the baseline is achievable.

If you have a particular char op effort that you feel is an upper ceiling for the amount of dpr possible, or even a "typical" optimization sotospeak, I can add that to table.

 

[The Old Crow]

I am less familiar with dpr calculations. In agreement with Treantmonk, the table uses the "baseline" dpr, that uses Warlock Eldritch Blast Invocations as a standard measure. Any amount less than this is subpar, and any amount more than this is optimal. Based on various char op efforts, roughly twice the baseline is achievable.

If you have a particular char op effort that you feel is an upper ceiling for the amount of dpr possible, or even a "typical" optimization sotospeak, I can add that to table.

Shouldn't there be ranged dpr and melee dpr? Eldritch blast is ranged.

 

[kilpatds]

In agreement with Treantmonk, the table uses the "baseline" dpr, that uses Warlock Eldritch Blast Invocations as a standard measure. Any amount less than this is subpar, and any amount more than this is optimal

Treantmonk is focused on optimizing for the game-as-is, I get the feeling you're talking more about "game-as-it-should-be[according to me]".

In Treantmonk's case, the comparison is "against a 2-level dip and not otherwise caring at all". If you can't do as much damage as a 2-level warlock dip, are you really doing any damage? In the game-design arena, the concerns should be more along the lines of "how SHOULD someone contribute? How long SHOULD combats take? How easy SHOULD it be for a (sorry, 4e terms incoming) striker to solo a equal-level brute? Those are different use cases, and IMHO call for different baselines calculated in different ways.

 

[Yaarel]

Treantmonk is focused on optimizing for the game-as-is, I get the feeling you're talking more about "game-as-it-should-be[according to me]".

In Treantmonk's case, the comparison is "against a 2-level dip and not otherwise caring at all". If you can't do as much damage as a 2-level warlock dip, are you really doing any damage? In the game-design arena, the concerns should be more along the lines of "how SHOULD someone contribute? How long SHOULD combats take? How easy SHOULD it be for a (sorry, 4e terms incoming) striker to solo a equal-level brute? Those are different use cases, and IMHO call for different baselines calculated in different ways.

The table is as-is, to some degree. For example the spell damage columns refer to the damage output from specific spells. But then extrapolates an ideal smooth progression that should-be, as a measure for all spells.

I am familiar with spells but less so with dpr.

The spell damage is per highest slot, or in other words twice or once per day. It is useful to establish a should-be ratio between twice per day spell damage versus always-on dpr.