Higher Ground

[Derren]

Melee only? Why? Just to honor 3e?

There is no advantage to having higher ground in melee, Revenge of the Sith notwithstanding. Quite the contrary, in fact. Your opponent keeps hacking at your leg and you keep hitting at his upper body. Which sounds good if you just look at rolemaster's critical table but in practice it's something else. The guy on lower ground as a much easier time attacking and defending effectively than the guy above.

That Sun Tzu guy must have been a really bad tactican then as he advises to never attack an enemy who has higher ground and to always get higher ground for yourself...

 

[MarauderX]

There are other incentives to moving around. Cover is a good one and a more sensible result in most case. If you have a fight with a lot of artillery monsters and there is an hard to reach area that offers good cover, it's a good gamble to take it.

A trap with an ongoing effect also creates a good incentive to reach the control panel.

An entrenched enemy that causes a lot of trouble may encourage the rogue to go get him.

etc.



No it's not. Try protecting your feet. See how much strenght you can put on a parry this low or how akward it is to lower you shield that low and in what position it puts you.

Meanwhile, all your high blow come at a nice, predictible angle.

And did you say rapier? Rapier is a god awful weapon to use when fighting on uneven terrain. I fenced for many years and it is absolutely critical to be able to move back and forth freely when fencing. The style of fighting and the weapon are always inseparable but in the rapier's case, it is critical. It is a very specialized weapon that becomes a useless lump of metal if you can't fight with it the way it was intended.

While parrying is a basic fencing skill, the best and most essential defense is simply backing away just the right amount (preferrably while also trying simulteneously to strike the arm of the attacker). When you fence, being a keen judge of distance is key and retreating just enough so that the attack can't touch you while you still can reach your opponent (either reach his entire body if your reach is superior or just his extended arm if it is not) is basically the most common way to get a point (and in a duel, a win). At my peak, I'd routinely back up just so that the opponent's attack ended litterrally one inch from me while my attack landed sqaurely on him.

And the most basic attack is simply a sudden lunge, often prefaced by a feint. Try to do that if you are fighting in a stairwell or on a table. Lunging becomes impossible and therefore your offense is crippled.

Due to a long history of swashbuckling movie where fighters favor longs exchange of short jab and parries and where jumping on table is seen as a good idea, I wouldn't actually penalize this behavior in D&D. But I sure wouldn't reward it either.

All I can say is that it would be great to spar with you. I'd love the chance to put more dents on your head and shoulders than you can hit my feet, whether with speed or shear 'predictable' force. For some reason you seem to think dodging is too difficult, and that blocking is impossible.

Just guessing, but with your logic the next arguement you'll make is why it's easier to withstand a seige without walls.

 

[DracoSuave]

a

That Sun Tzu guy must have been a really bad tactican then as he advises to never attack an enemy who has higher ground and to always get higher ground for yourself...

That Sun Tzu guy never advocated attacking with a single human. Therefore using Sun Tzu to discuss one-on-one combat is automaticly a failure to understand Sun Tzu.

Those who understand Sun Tzu would, in this situation, bring a friend.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

That Sun Tzu guy must have been a really bad tactican then as he advises to never attack an enemy who has higher ground and to always get higher ground for yourself...

That's because the archers will destroy you. Running up a hill in armor is a bitch and breaks your formation while the higher ground gives them extra range. The result is you take several extra volleys on your way to the archers while being unable or having difficulty forming a proper shield wall. A big no-no, you'll get slaughtered. It has nothing to do with one on one melee fighting.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

All I can say is that it would be great to spar with you. I'd love the chance to put more dents on your head and shoulders than you can hit my feet, whether with speed or shear 'predictable' force. For some reason you seem to think dodging is too difficult, and that blocking is impossible.
.

I won a provincial (state) tournament in fencing. I have a fair idea of how to use a fencing weapon and I do NOT want to do it in a stair or on a table. EVER. Screw higher ground, I want space, lots of it.

Only case I wouldn't mind higher ground is if I'm using a slashing weapon in one of these middleage spiral stairway case designed to hamper the right handed fighter climbing up and help the right handed fighter holding the higher ground (moves up in a clockwise fashion).

Just guessing, but with your logic the next arguement you'll make is why it's easier to withstand a seige without walls

This is frankly insulting. We both know building wall has nothing to do with gaining higher ground in melee.

 

[King Nate]

In the last 4 or 5 Dungeon magazines, some adventures list under their features of the area section that standing on a table gives you combat advantage against creatures under you. If I remember correct, there is also a way to fall off the tables since they are not sturdy.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I won a provincial (state) tournament in fencing. I have a fair idea of how to use a fencing weapon and I do NOT want to do it in a stair or on a table. EVER. Screw higher ground, I want space, lots of it.

Only case I wouldn't mind higher ground is if I'm using a slashing weapon in one of these middleage spiral stairway case designed to hamper the right handed fighter climbing up and help the right handed fighter holding the higher ground (moves up in a clockwise fashion).

You're thinking like a sportsman.
Not that it's a bad thing for a fencer, but it's not combat.
For argument's sake, say both combatants are fencers, and they're on stairs.
On stairs, quick stepping forwards is a lot safer than backwards ... so either while parrying or in the attack position, move in real close (so neither combatant can land a hit with the point of the sword), and push (with a kick, tackle, knee, or whatever's convenient) your opponent back.
Land your hit while they are falling.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Especially if you're in real gear (try SCA stuff, not cardboard), and have to keep it up for more than 2 minutes.

How long do I have to take roids to get myself up to a 20STR like my orc fighter?

DS

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, err .. you shouldn't need 20 str ..
SCA people don't hit with maximum force, so their armour tends not to be the type necessary to stop max force.
Just the leather stuff (and possibly light chain over the top) will do.

 

[gtoasnt3]

I can't speak for melee, but when it comes to archery and higher ground, it takes a little bit of practice to learn how to fire a bow with accuracy from a tree stand versus on level ground. Just from my experience in hunting the elusive white tail deer, all the practice in the world on level ground at a target doesn't prepare you for firing from a perch. I wouldn't give any bonus for higher ground using ranged attacks in my game and I'll stick with the 4e rules on this.