D&D 5E Hit Point Recovery Too Generous

[bmcdaniel]

Actually, since most classes have a mix of short-rest and long-rest resources, it would take surprisingly few changes to play that campaign. Using a long-rest ability would be a desperate measure, and you would normally try to get along without spending more than your short-rest abilities on a day-to-day basis.

My campaign is playing with long rest= 1 week in town, short rest = overnight rule.

This was done specifically with the understanding that it wasn't intended to change the number of encounters per long rest/short rest. Thus, on a relative basis, it shouldn't change the resource drain.

I instituted this rule because random wilderness encounters were too easy. Knowing that everything was recovered over night, meant characters could go nova without any resource loss. Now, wilderness encounters on the way to/from the dungeon are drains on resources, encouraging characters to figure out how to avoid them.

I also have said that the requirements for what counts as a "civilization" would increase as characters gained in levels, encouraging them to establish strongholds ala OSR style play. It is also dependent on class: clerics need a shrine/temple/cathedral; wizards need a study/hut/tower; fighters need a forge and exercise yard; rangers only need a cave in the woods

Overall, I think this has had a beneficial effect on the campaign, and I encourage others to try it, although its obviously not suited for all campaign styles.

 

[Umbran]

This has been true of every edition of D&D.

Yes, but it means that adjusting one knob (natural healing rate) without adjusting the other knob (spell recovery rate) means you get a change in player behavior you may not be looking for, and not so much of what you were looking for.

 

[Umbran]

Does anyone else think hit point recovery through rests is way too generous in this edition?

A few folks have touched on this, I think, but it may be worthwhile to raise the point more clearly:

Too generous for what end? Whenever you say there is too much, or too little of something, there is an implicit question as to what is being prevented. The full statement is "way to generous to produce experience X".

What experience do you want to create? That will tell you if the rate is too generous.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Just for healing? Or for everything?

I can tell you that as a player, if I was playing a wizard (just for instance), I could live with only healing after a week in town, but not regaining spells until a week spent in town would probably drive me away from the class, if not the campaign.

ALL THE THINGS. A wizard needs their library to recover all their spells! Each spell is its own TOME!

It's a pacing thing IMC. I use the DMG adventuring day guidelines to break up the overall adventure goals into digestible chunks with natural breaks between them (usually, act breaks, since I'm a sucka for a narrative arc).

Like, a "clean out the goblin warren!" adventure might involve a foray into the forest a few hexes outside of town. "Civilization" here might look like a makeshift fort-town garrison, relatively safe. They've got folks in town who can supply the party with resources. The total amount of goblins inside the warren is one "adventuring day" worth of XP, so the PC's are expected to make the foray in 3-4 days. Each time they retreat to take a nightly rest, some aspect of the warren changes (maybe after day 1, they put up spike traps; after day 2, the survivors flee to another warren; after day 3, the remaining goblins plan an ambush). They can camp in the garrison if need be and get a short rest. After their success, they can return from the wilderness and recover all their abilities as normal after a week of downtime. During that recovery, they also learn of hooks that lead them to other adventures (maybe, for instance, the garrison that they stayed at was attacked by goblins in retribution and they're called on to defend it!).

Success and failure are also determined by those rests. If the party needs to take a 5th short rest, it's likely that the remaining goblins escape and Bad Things Happen. If the party can do it in three, they might get a bonus of some sort (no ambush, and it turns out this retreat warren had some treasure!). If the party needs to take a long rest...well...they fail. Gobbies don't die. Bad Things Happen.

(by Bad Things I might mean, for instance, the garrison is raided and destroyed, or maybe a stronger monster comes to live in the forest seeing that the goblins are doing so safely, etc.).

With the average of "one adventuring day per session," this lines up pretty neatly with where the natural break in play happens anyway, and lets each session be its own episode, and significant time can pass in the campaign while an adventure is happening.

TL;DR I don't expect my wizard to be able to recover spells - one default "adventuring day" is like 3-4 adventuring days for me, so they don't need to bring to bear more than their "daily" spell slot allotment for a few days.

 

[iserith]

Does anyone else think hit point recovery through rests is way too generous in this edition? In AD&D a character would get back one hit point a day after what is now termed a long rest. Now, rest an hour and you get to roll a full hit die, rest a few more hours and you get all of your hit points back. While this is a game of fantasy, some realism is still nice. AD&D was probably too stingy, but 5E is videogame-like in its ridiculously fast recovery of hit points.

In a similar vein, it is equally unrealistic that a character gets knocked out, is on death's door, manages to get one hit point back and just springs back into the fight as if nothing terrible just happened. Again looking back to AD&D, a character, after being knocked unconscious, needed a full week of rest before being able to undertake any activity. This was likely too strict - but I feel like there should be a happy middle.

Does anyone else have an issue with the absurdly rapid and easy hit point recovery/no negative lingering effects from serious injury in 5E? It might just be me. I'm about to start a new campaign; I think I'm going to try to come up with something that feels more realistic, without making the players feel like they are being punished. Has anyone come up with a system they like?

I don't consider it "absurdly rapid" and I don't have an issue with hit point recovery as it currently is written, nor do I have an issue with no lingering effects from serious injury. Per the Basic Rules (page 74): "Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck."

As such, they don't all represent "meat" and don't actually represent anything in particular until the DM has narrated the result of an attack. The feeling that it is "like a video game" generally comes from narrating mortal injury after a successful attack roll, then watching the character be back to normal after what amounts to a solid nap. The problem is not the mechanic -it's how the DM chooses to narrate. The DM can choose to narrate in other ways that do not create this disconnect.

 

[Nebulous]

Does anyone else think hit point recovery through rests is way too generous in this edition? In AD&D a character would get back one hit point a day after what is now termed a long rest. Now, rest an hour and you get to roll a full hit die, rest a few more hours and you get all of your hit points back. While this is a game of fantasy, some realism is still nice. AD&D was probably too stingy, but 5E is videogame-like in its ridiculously fast recovery of hit points.

In a similar vein, it is equally unrealistic that a character gets knocked out, is on death's door, manages to get one hit point back and just springs back into the fight as if nothing terrible just happened. Again looking back to AD&D, a character, after being knocked unconscious, needed a full week of rest before being able to undertake any activity. This was likely too strict - but I feel like there should be a happy middle.

Does anyone else have an issue with the absurdly rapid and easy hit point recovery/no negative lingering effects from serious injury in 5E? It might just be me. I'm about to start a new campaign; I think I'm going to try to come up with something that feels more realistic, without making the players feel like they are being punished. Has anyone come up with a system they like?

It IS too fast, but then again, it's just a game. I don't worry about the realism too much. "Realistically" you would not survive a mace to the head, being bit by a dragon or stepped on by a giant, but none of those things slow a D&D character for long. No matter what the rate of hit point recovery is.

 

[jodyjohnson]

In some groups attacks 'hit' for 'damage' and in others attacks 'succeed' and reduce Hit Points.

We go with the latter.

Our house rule is full recovery of hit points with a short rest. Actual damage (being reduced to 0 hp with an attack intended to be injuring) is represented by a variant of the Lingering Wounds table.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I thought it was a bit fast, as in 4e, so I changed a short rest to be a night and a long rest to be a week spent in civilization.

Woiks fine.

Since you only regain hit dice healing via long rests, does this mean that characters outside of civilization never regain them for purposes of short rest healing?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Since you only regain hit dice healing via long rests, does this mean that characters outside of civilization never regain them for purposes of short rest healing?

You got it. There is a good reason to return to town. Or if you're a ranger or a druid to return to your shack in the woods/magical grove/whatever. Encourages the party to have a home base, which is good for hub-and-spoke adventure design.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Since you only regain hit dice healing via long rests, does this mean that characters outside of civilization never regain them for purposes of short rest healing?

Probably a background feature or class ability for characters who can treat 'homey' areas in the wilderness as 'civilization'. Outlander, Hermit and Scout come to mind.