D&D General Hit Points are a great mechanic

[kermit4karate]

Can't say that I agree with much of the OP.

I do agree that the "fire and forget" part is nice. Yes, there is an elegance to simplicity. I can buy all that.

However, I find that HP is a barrier to many common tropes:
•Hostage situation? Hostage has enough HP to survive, so no narrative tension.
•Rushing to save someone from falling off a cliff? Meh, they'll survive the fall damage, so no narrative tension.

I also disagree with the verisimilitude stance presented, as it conflicts with personal experiences of having found victory in spite of injury.

I actually agree with the absence of dramatic tension caused by survival certainty but disagree that HP are the source of the problem.

The problem is the survival certainty, which is easy to remove.

Just eliminate the certainty.

That's exactly why I've used a house rule for decades in my D&D games where max damage dice get rerolled and added to the damage total, so it becomes mathematically possible for a 1d6 damage die roll to inflict hundreds of HP damage if one were to roll a 6, then another, then another, then another, etc.

It's a little change that adds a lot of suspense and dramatic tension at the table. Simple rule, major impact.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Amusingly, under this interpretation potions of healing and potions of vitality are named backwards. But, yeah, I also prefer this interpretation.

I agree. The problem with HP isn't actually a problem with HP - it's a problem with regaining them being called "Healing". The worst example being the spell "Cure Wounds". Generally, there are no wounds to cure. And if there are, Cure Wounds doesn't really do enough (usually) to seem like it's doing that. At best, it's "Energy Boost". Like a shot of adrenaline.

 

[GobHag]

A hit is a hit, the reason why my level 1 wizard gets got by getting shivved by a goblin and my level 10 wizard surviving getting shivved ten times by a goblin is because his 'meat' is tougher and there's more of it. Better to accept that the PCs are just tough-as-nails mofos then to twist my brain and the wordings to make it seem like a hit isn't a hit.

 

[loverdrive]

However, I find that HP is a barrier to many common tropes:
•Hostage situation? Hostage has enough HP to survive, so no narrative tension.
•Rushing to save someone from falling off a cliff? Meh, they'll survive the fall damage, so no narrative tension.

I don't see how either of these has anything to do with HP.

Even the sponginess aside, both are out of combat situations, and I don't see much reason to use a combat-specific subsystem to be used for them.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Hit points are a good mechanic.

But Healing Surges added on? That combo is a great mechanic. Because now you can have your cake and eat it too. You can keep all the utility and straightforwardness of hit points, and have the benefits of a light, simple, not-super-punishing "wounds" system as well--all while making HP more tactical AND strategic at the same time.

 

[Retros_x]

There's a flipside to that. Getting a crit on the enemy just to realize that the enemy didn't notice is a bit of a buzzkill.

Both you and the previous commentor were not talking about HP, but random damage which is a different concept IMO.

In general HP are a great system and there is a reason there are one of the oldest (video) game abstractions. I wonder if alternatives would be viable? How about instead of descending the hitpoints of your enemy, you ascending your own IDK "combo points", "flow-points" whatever and when you fill them you can choose a decisive action that changes the course of the encounter. A progress bar instead of depletion bar. Would that change anything? Would it be unnecessary?

I think coming from this thought - the only thing that I sometimes don't like about HP, that they are so ultimative. You fight until your HP are zero and than you are depending on the game either out of the scene or out of the game. Quite binary. Of course there are often mechanics based on that or wounds and stuff, but they rarely have impact on the consequences of the scene and narrative. The only one I can think of in the moment are moral checks if HP are below a certain threshold that can completely change the course of the scene if an enemy suddenly runs away or tries to parley.

 

[TheSword]

I think HP are a great mechanic for what D&D is trying to achieve. Cinematic, heroic combat, where the hero pulls themselves back up and keeps on going. It makes it fast, simple and requires relatively little thought or emotional investment in game that is predominately driven by combat.

Not all games run that way though. I’m running three different WFRP 4e campaign at the moment. That system has wounds in place of Hp. When you’re wounds are gone hits deal lingering injuries like broken bones, amputations, pulled muscles, bleeding etc.

One character has a broken collar bone on the third level of Undermountain. She’s a mage so can still contribute but it hurts and the rest of the party are protecting her while deciding whether they can make it through to their objective in Skullport. In another party, the trapper has fractured his hip. It’s slowing him down but he can still use his sling. The mechanical penalties - reduced Agility and Strength are causing him to play his character differently.

In a more nuanced game like WFRP 4e then you can indulge this a bit more and lean into outcomes to combat that aren’t just win or death. It wouldn’t work for 5e and I’m ok with that but let’s not assume it doesn’t work in any system.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Can't say that I agree with much of the OP.

I do agree that the "fire and forget" part is nice. Yes, there is an elegance to simplicity. I can buy all that.

However, I find that HP is a barrier to many common tropes:
•Hostage situation? Hostage has enough HP to survive, so no narrative tension.
•Rushing to save someone from falling off a cliff? Meh, they'll survive the fall damage, so no narrative tension.

I also disagree with the verisimilitude stance presented, as it conflicts with personal experiences of having found victory in spite of injury.

i'd like to see how the game would change (and need to be changed) if HP was flattened, with higher starting HP values for both PCs and NPCs and stop gaining HP at like, maybe 5th, 8th? level?

a fighter starts with 20 HP at 1st, gains +d10(av:6) +3(con) for five levels for 65 at 6th
a wizard starts with 12 HP at 1st, gains +d6(av:4) +3 for five levels for 47 at 6th
then maybe a commoner has 15 HP.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In general HP are a great system and there is a reason there are one of the oldest (video) game abstractions. I wonder if alternatives would be viable? How about instead of descending the hitpoints of your enemy, you ascending your own IDK "combo points", "flow-points" whatever and when you fill them you can choose a decisive action that changes the course of the encounter. A progress bar instead of depletion bar. Would that change anything? Would it be unnecessary?

That is an interesting point. Some sort of "combo point" or "progress bar" system in which you fill it with weaker attacks and can then spend it for more powerful attacks is very common (though almost always alongside the HP) but I can't ever recall seeing something like that in a tabletop RPG. I wonder why? It would solve the issue of the PCs novaing first with the most powerful abilities and then boringly whittling away the enemies with weaker ones with lesser attacks.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Can't say that I agree with much of the OP.

I do agree that the "fire and forget" part is nice. Yes, there is an elegance to simplicity. I can buy all that.

However, I find that HP is a barrier to many common tropes:
•Hostage situation? Hostage has enough HP to survive, so no narrative tension.
•Rushing to save someone from falling off a cliff? Meh, they'll survive the fall damage, so no narrative tension.

I also disagree with the verisimilitude stance presented, as it conflicts with personal experiences of having found victory in spite of injury.

Yeah, hit points and "gun pointed at you, so stand down" situations go together like oil and water.