D&D General Hit Points are a great mechanic

[AnotherGuy]

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing, but I loathe things that force me or my players to stop painting word pictures to refer to a book to determine an outcome. Some of that is inherently necessary, but it's a truly slippery slope. Rules are both a blessing and a curse to roroleplaying.

The balance of roleplaying/storytelling and game and where we (general) land between the two is different from table to table and player to player.

 

[loverdrive]

I actually still disagree. I don't believe that intentionally (because we're doing it like a director yells "cut!") slowing the pace for technical reasons ever aids immersion.

Slowing the pace of the storytelling, like how a slow-burn dialogue-heavy thriller does it, isn't the same as saying, "Hold on, gang, while I pull out my trusty Slashing Wounds Table!" -- there's nothing immersive within the storytelling about that. It may be mechanically interesting and amusing as the group pauses to wait and see, but it has little to do with actual roleplay. That's a boardgame mechanic, IMO.

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing, but I loathe things that force me or my players to stop painting word pictures to refer to a book to determine an outcome. Some of that is inherently necessary, but it's a truly slippery slope. Rules are both a blessing and a curse to roleplaying.

Sometimes I'm playing Fate with people from my hema gym and we grind combat to a literal crawl by very granularly modeling it, and arguing about interpretations of fencing manuscripts.

Is it bad for storytelling pacing? Yeah it is. Is it fun? Oh hell yeah it is fun.

 

[kermit4karate]

The balance of roleplaying/storytelling and game and where we (general) land between the two is different from table to table and player to player.

I appreciate the attempt to be diplomatic...but I still think there are certain truths to it. Saying it differs from table to table and player to player might be overstating it. Yes, one's appetite for complexity differs, but there comes a point where an RPG becomes so complex that it's no longer accurate to even refer to it as a roleplaying game. Make it complex enough and it becomes a documentary or a boardgame.

 

[kermit4karate]

Sometimes I'm playing Fate with people from my hema gym and we grind combat to a literal crawl by very granularly modeling it, and arguing about interpretations of fencing manuscripts.

Is it bad for storytelling pacing? Yeah it is. Is it fun? Oh hell yeah it is fun.

Fair enough. I won't debate what is/isn't fun for different people. You do you. I'm only speaking for what helps/hurts immersive roleplaying, IMO.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I appreciate the attempt to be diplomatic...but I still think there are certain truths to it. Saying it differs from table to table and player to player might be overstating it. Yes, one's appetite for complexity differs, but there comes a point where an RPG becomes so complex that it's no longer accurate to even refer to it as a roleplaying game. Make it complex enough and it becomes a documentary or a boardgame.

That's fair. The Hit Point explosion from 3x onwards has definitely affected the game IMO, particularly at higher levels. I'm more keenly aware of it because PCs at my table are 15th and I need care not to create any grinding combat situations.

 

[Alzrius]

I appreciate the attempt to be diplomatic...but I still think there are certain truths to it. Saying it differs from table to table and player to player might be overstating it. Yes, one's appetite for complexity differs, but there comes a point where an RPG becomes so complex that it's no longer accurate to even refer to it as a roleplaying game. Make it complex enough and it becomes a documentary or a boardgame.

That sword cuts both ways. I've seen "role-playing games" that are little more than guided acting prompts, where their "rules" are little more than suggestions for setting a scene, lacking even the most basic functions of a task-resolution system, let alone character generators, world-building guidelines, etc.

 

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[kermit4karate]

That sword cuts both ways. I've seen "role-playing games" that are little more than guided acting prompts, where their "rules" are little more than suggestions for setting a scene, lacking even the most basic functions of a task-resolution system, let alone character generators, world-building guidelines, etc.

Agreed 100%. I said upthread that some of this is inherent in the "game" part of roleplaying games. There have to be some rules. I, personally, believe that D&D (across the amalgam of different editions over the decades) gets the balance mostly right, IMO. I also said that it's a truly slippery slope. There comes a point beyond which a game becomes so complex that it can no longer rightly be called roleplaying. It becomes something else.

 

[AlViking]

I have more faith in a player's ability to handle complexity than your average game designer, IME.

Sounds like you haven't met 3/4 of my players.

 

[AlViking]

The thing about this discussion and HP in D&D is... It's a nothingburger to fix.

HP remains a historically effective, balanced mechanic. It's not as though more complex calculations and tables to apply the concept of damage differently don't introduce more complexity, and complexity is the killer of pace. It destroys immersion. It destroys flow.

So even though I add a house rule to rolls for damage (the aforementioned max die rolled = roll die again + add to total), that's as far as I'll go.

HP is a fantastic mechanism, IMO. Incredibly simple and fast to roleplay. The most significant issue with it, IMO, is when it eliminates player fear and uncertainty -- the threat of death -- because there is no drama without tension.

I also don't see other systems that I've seen tried and read up on that work significantly better. It's all personal preference of course but a tabletop game can't possibly have a realistic damage and wound system especially when you throw magic into the mix. If it could, it likely wouldn't be a very fun game to play. There's a reason why video games that constantly put you into combat have HP and simple healing while not having lasting wounds. If combat is a central part of the game and characters are expected to be having multiple fights per day you can't have rules that end up with permanent damage on a regular basis.

Yes, it's heroic action movie logic. If I didn't want that I'd play a different game where combat was the last choice. Fortunately those games exist so complaining about how D&D handles HP is kind of like complaining that some music by a death metal band isn't calm and relaxing enough.