Hold Person and Polymorph

[Egres]

Ok, this is the situation.

Wiz casts Hold Person on a Human, and the Human fails his Will save.

Sor casts Polymorph on the Human, changing him in a Troll.

Now the ex-Human is a Giant.

Is he still affected by the Hold Person spell?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

IMO, yes, the spell still affects the target, since the "is the target condition humanoid?" condition is checked when the spell is first cast, not every round (I have no rule quote to back this up, it's just what I would do intuitively).

AR

 

[Hypersmurf]

In support of AR's reply, I'm just going to say 'Shillelagh'.

-Hyp.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

But since you get to save every round against hold person now, it does seem it's more murky in this case.

 

[Egres]

In support of AR's reply, I'm just going to say 'Shillelagh'.

-Hyp.

I have just red your reply on a similar thread on the WotC boards, and i'm very glad to see you did use the same argument i used.

In fact, i didn't notice Shillelagh, but i used in my argument the Blackstaff spell:with that spell you can target a quarterstaff you own, or another quarterstaff you don't own.

If you don't own the quarterstaff, it must be a not magical one.

But after you cast the spell, it becomes a magical quarterstaff, and then it would become an ineligible target for the spell, and the spell would end immediately.

And this doesn't make sense at all.

Ok then: problem solved.

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[Egres]

In support of AR's reply, I'm just going to say 'Shillelagh'.

-Hyp.

Just a funny note.

My DM has just replied to me that your reply is inconsistent cause Shillelagh is a spell that, like all spells, can contradicts general rules......

I think i'm going to definitively leave my group.

 

[Hypersmurf]

My DM has just replied to me that your reply is inconsistent cause Shillelagh is a spell that, like all spells, can contradicts general rules......

Certainly. And if he can find anything in Shillelagh that says "one nonmagical staff (nonmagical, that is, except for the ongoing effects of the Shillelagh spell)" that would make sense.

But since that clause isn't there, it's evidence that it isn't necessary... which is the case if target validity is checked only at casting time.

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

Just a final note:what do you think would happen to a Wiz with Greater Invisibility cast on him that would die?

Would the spell end?

The problem is the same.

If the corpse is an object, the spell should end, by the (wrong) rule "if the target is no longer a valid target, the spell ends".

What do you think about it?

 

[Darklone]

Why should the spell end? Someone casts Mage Armor on himself, gets killed, gets resurrected with a Wish spell... why should Mage armor expire in the meantime?

 

[Egres]

Why should the spell end? Someone casts Mage Armor on himself, gets killed, gets resurrected with a Wish spell... why should Mage armor expire in the meantime?

But, do you think Mage Armor would be active in the mean time?

Do you think that the Wiz would stay invisble while dead?

My DM argues that the corpse is an object, and then the spell should end, cause it's no longer a valid target

He says that if you don't accept his way of reasoning, Dominate Person would continue to stay in effect even after the dominated subject's death.

In other words, he says that you must check for each spell.

He says that Hypersmurf's reasoning about Shillelagh is a specific rule, that can't be applied to Dominate Person, for example.

The humanoid dies, and then the spell expires, at least in the meantime, and then the same would occur with Greater Invisibility;the subject should return visibile in the meantime.