D&D 5E [Homebrew] Greater Produce Flame

[Aenorgreen]

The Toggle Torch seems like a much better way to go. I think Clayton is underestimating how much requiring the bonus action gimps the spell. That means that it cannot be used the same round as bonus action spells such as shillelagh, healing word, misty step, etc. It cannot be used with two-weapon attacks, or other bonus action attacks such as pole-arm master. You can't even do it and wild shape as a moon druid. Using both an action and a bonus action really would make the greater produce flame terrible for many builds.

 

[ClaytonCross]

Wouldn't this be simpler?

Clayton's Toggle Torch
Level 1 Conjuration
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S
Duration: 24 hours

As part of casting this spell, touch an object weighing five pounds or less that is either unattended or held by a willing creature. The object erupts with ghostly flames which provide illumination as a torch. The flames produce no heat and require no air.

For the duration of the spell, whenever you are within 30 feet of the object, you can extinguish or rekindle the flames with a gesture. Doing so counts as interacting with an object.



Then just cast produce flame if you want that too.

Not a bad, idea at all and kind of what I want. I the only reason I used Produce Flame was that it already has the light mechanic and was part of the class. Seems like it would be better if it was more functional.

 

[jaelis]

I think the main function of produce flame is to be an attack cantrip. The illumination is just a bit of flavor.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I think the main function of produce flame is to be an attack cantrip. The illumination is just a bit of flavor.

I don't disagree, but if that is the case why not just give them Flame Bolt? Every other cantrip attack with "Flavor" is functional.

Chill touch 1d8 necrotic, prevents regeneration
Ray of Frost 1d8 cold, reduces speed by 10

Thorn Whip 1d6 piercing, pulls target 10ft closer

Vicious Mockery 1d4 Psychic, Target has disadvantage on there next attack

Perhaps another option would be to just fix produce flame, something like:

Produce Flame
Conjuration cantrip
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: 10 minutes
A flickering flame appears on your hand, the top of your staff, or end of your wand. The flame remains there for the duration and harms neither you nor your equipment. The flame sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet. The spell ends if you dismiss it as an action or if you cast it again.
You can also attack with the flame. When you cast this spell, or as an action on a later turn, you can hurl part of the flame at a creature within 30 feet of you. Make a ranged spell attack. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 fire damage.

This spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).

---I think this is enough to keep the Light/Flame Bolt as better with 2 cantrips but make it functional.

 

[jaelis]

I don't disagree, but if that is the case why not just give them Flame Bolt?

So that druid spells have a different flavor from wizard spells? I think it is deliberate that druid and cleric attack cantrips are a bit worse than wizard/sorc ones. The divine casters get better weapon attacks.

Not to say that Produce Flame doesn't have some utility, I just think it has enough as is.

But if you think it ought to be improved, it makes more sense to improve it than to introduce a new spell for that purpose.

Though I kind of like the toggle torch.

 

[ClaytonCross]

So that druid spells have a different flavor from wizard spells? I think it is deliberate that druid and cleric attack cantrips are a bit worse than wizard/sorc ones. The divine casters get better weapon attacks.

Not to say that Produce Flame doesn't have some utility, I just think it has enough as is.

But if you think it ought to be improved, it makes more sense to improve it than to introduce a new spell for that purpose.

Though I kind of like the toggle torch.

I agree on the Flavor and that a reduction in damage for some utility is not bad.

Though Flame Bolt can be used to set thing on fire at a distance which is utility that Produce Flame does not have.

I just feel like if your going to make the Flavor that Fire can be held as a light, it should be mechanically usable as a light. Otherwise, you just made a crappy Flame Bolt. I actually love the Idea of walking around with fire in your palm as a light source and your "Toggle Torch" is a pretty cool way to do that. I just kind of feel like they fell short with intent on this one cantrip. (Which is pretty good considering how many seem perfect the way they are.)

You know some times you write a post and it leads you to an answer you did not expect.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/12/14...-want-to-grapple-with-a-hand-that-is-on-fire/
If I read this right, "A flickering flame appears in your hand." does not prevent you from using both your hands as normal... Duo. Not what my DM said, but good to know.