D&D 5E homebrew subclass Rogue:Thug

[auburn2]

The main motivation is a melee oriented subclass that can sneak attack with non-finesse weapons. I did not include any extra weapon proficiencies, so to really max this with polearms one would need to subclass or take the weapon master feat. Also a character would need both a high strength (for weapon hit/damage) and high dexterity to subclass so you could not dump one of dex or strength as melee-oriented characters normally do.

Anyway here is what I have, let me know what you think:

Fearsome Reputation

At 3rd level you get proficiency in intimidation and your proficiency bonus is doubled.

Versatile attacker

At 3rd level your sneak attack ability can be used with any simple or martial weapon with which you are proficient.

Threatening Demeanor

At 9th level, your fearsome reputation becomes extraordinarily threatening. As an action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by a creature's Wisdom save. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.

If the creature fails its save it is frightened for one minute. A hostile creature can repeat this save at the end of every turn. If it saves this can not affect the same creature again for 24 hours.

Fighting style

At 13th level you can select a fighting style from Defense, Dueling, Great Weapon fighting or two weapon fighting

Multiple melee attack

At 17th level you can make a second attack when you take the attack action. The second attack must be a melee attack and it can benefit from your Sneak Attack even if you have already used it during this turn, but you can't use your Sneak Attack against the same target more than once in a turn.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Over all, not bad really.

The only thing I dislike (not an issue with what you've done but an issue with 5E in general) is the Charisma (Intimidation). We link Intimidation more often to Strength using the option in the PHB.

That is really my only issue, and could easily be house-ruled to follow the variant in the PHB so no biggy.

Nice work!

 

[Dave Goff]

I like it, seems really reasonable.
I will note that I think Intimidation based on charisma totally makes sense to me. I've seen really big strong guys try to intimidate and fail because they just don't pick up on social cues. On the other hand, I've seen really small people with a lot of social savvy intimidate the hell out of big strong folks.
Strength-based intimidation might work on low-(near animal) intelligence targets, but in cities I can't imagine it being as effective as Charisma-intimidation.
For example, try to intimidate a guard to open the gates after hours-
Big tough half-orc barbarian looms over the guard and threatens to beat them to a pulp if they don't open the gate. The guard shrugs and waves for backup. After all, dealing with things like this is what they do for a living.
The sly halfling intervenes and points out that the town council will be very upset if the party isn't let in and the guard could end up mucking out the gryphon stalls for the rest of their life. Suddenly, the guard is out of his comfort zone and is more likely to waver.
Just my $.02. I understand the thinking for Strength-based, but I think Charisma makes more sense.
Sorry to hijack the thread on a side topic!

 

[DND_Reborn]

I understand the thinking for Strength-based, but I think Charisma makes more sense.

FWIW, we both STR- and CHA-based Intimidation checks depending on how it is being done. But we also do cross-ability-skill checks all the time. As for how 5E is written, it would be CHA (Intimidation) by default.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread topic.

 

[Minigiant]

Looks good. I'd take out the double Sneak Attack chance out of the 17th level ability. The subclass seems a squeak too combat focused for how Roguish Archetypes are.

I made a melee combat rogue subclass back in 2014:
The Brute
It's more a gangster enforcer or shady cop. It's more social focused than yours.

The only thing I dislike (not an issue with what you've done but an issue with 5E in general) is the Charisma (Intimidation). We link Intimidation more often to Strength using the option in the PHB.

Intimidation is usually a Charisma thing. It's more about displaying your physique than just having it.

Though I wish Skills were not tied to ability scores as default. Intimidation (Strength) and Athletics (Constitution) are big ones.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Big tough half-orc barbarian looms over the guard and threatens to beat them to a pulp if they don't open the gate. The guard shrugs and waves for backup. After all, dealing with things like this is what they do for a living.
The sly halfling intervenes and points out that the town council will be very upset if the party isn't let in and the guard could end up mucking out the gryphon stalls for the rest of their life. Suddenly, the guard is out of his comfort zone and is more likely to waver.

Alternately, the sly halfling drops his threat about gryphon stalls and the dumb guard scratches his head, unable to understand what the halfing is getting at. The half-orc butts in and says, "He means that if you don't open the gate I'm gonna break your legs". The guard turns white and opens the gate.

Neither version is "better" than the other, let alone more realistic or more probable. It's all what story you want to tell.

But I wouldn't give free expertise. The rogue already gets double proficiency in four skills. If they want it in Intimidation they can spend one of those four.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I have flat-out removed the Finesse weapon requirement for Sneak Attack, and not had any issues.
As such, I think you can afford to get something more at 3rd level. I would suggest allowing Sneak Attack against an opponent that is Frightened or Grappled.

I use the variant ability scores for skills quite a bit. However Intimidation checks are almost always Charisma based. That half-orc butting in and threatening to break the guard's legs is still using charisma (or just aiding the halfling).

 

[delphonso]

Ignoring the non-debate about intimidation.

This is a cool subclass 17 is really late for a second attack, but two sneak attacks makes it worth it. I'd even drop the rule about it being multiple targets to sweeten the pot.

Something you might not have considered - by making the rogue a bit more melee focused, you might want to give them some form of protection, as most d8 HP melee builds have. Cunning action might be enough, though. (Perhaps allow Dodge on Cunning Action? That's super strong, though...)

 

[auburn2]

I have flat-out removed the Finesse weapon requirement for Sneak Attack, and not had any issues.
As such, I think you can afford to get something more at 3rd level. I would suggest allowing Sneak Attack against an opponent that is Frightened or Grappled.

If I had that house rule I would, but we don't and I personally am not a fan of that as a house rule. Not to say anythign is wrong with it, but we don't use it at my table.

If we did I would agree I would need more at 3rd level.

 

[auburn2]

Ignoring the non-debate about intimidation.

This is a cool subclass 17 is really late for a second attack, but two sneak attacks makes it worth it. I'd even drop the rule about it being multiple targets to sweeten the pot.

Something you might not have considered - by making the rogue a bit more melee focused, you might want to give them some form of protection, as most d8 HP melee builds have. Cunning action might be enough, though. (Perhaps allow Dodge on Cunning Action? That's super strong, though...)

I thought about the same on 17th level, however if you get to 17th level as a Rogue it means you did not get multi-attack through a subclass.

The scout subclass gives a Bonus action attack and up to 2 SAs at 17th level, but it must be on different opponents. I based it on this. Compared to scout this only works for the thugs melee attacks but does not require using a BA.

I think dodge as cunning action would be too much at 3rd level. Also because I think most of these builds will use a versatile or two-handed weapon and forego the dual wielding, the character can disengage to move out of melee.