[Hordes of the Abyss] Using, rather than changing

[Mouseferatu]

Seriously, you did mention "canon" and I think Nightfall's reply touches on why that misses the point. These issues are not tied to any certain canon. You can change every element of canon from pantheons to cosmologies to geographies and the classic demon lords stay in as part of standard D&D. There are already a vast multitude of variant canons which contain these entities. So coming up with one new story doesn't fix the issues of messing with the underlying power balance expectations.

I'm not trying to "fix" anything, or to argue that the lords as written are/are not appropriate. My point was simply that I came up with an idea that I thought was fun, that used them as-is, and I wanted to see what people thought, and if anyone had any other similar notions. I'm not trying to argue a point, and I'd appreciate it if others didn't bring the argument here when there are plenty of places to address the topic. That doesn't mean people can't express negative reactions to the idea--I'm sure there will be a lot who don't like it. It just means I'd prefer not to let the "meta-argument" swallow yet another thread whole.

 

[Schmoe]

I really like the idea of coupling the demon lords with a rejuvenation ability. Imagine for a moment that a Demon Lord is not an actual creature, but a physical manifestation of a primal force that has taken over a mortal body and shaped it in its likeness. When the mortal body is slain, the primal force must seek another body out to take over. Whether the new physical body is that of the one who killed the first body, or it must be that of a chaotic demon, chosen at random from the Abyss, is something left to DM preference.

In a way, this idea makes the Demon Lords more than deities. They are eternal forces that can never be destroyed.

The idea is also very flexible, in that it supports using multiple versions of stats for a single demon lord. A powerful set of stats could reflect the demon lord having possessed the form of an advanced balor, while a more modest set of stats reflects possession of a dretch or some such. Heck, there could be multiple incarnations at one time, or just a single incarnation. Characters could undertake a quest to slay a powerful form in the hopes that it will reincarnate in a less powerful form so that they could imprison it for all time, for surely the powerful form would be held by no prison.

You could say that it takes time for a demon lord to re-form after being slain, which holds closer to traditional lore, or the reformation could be nearly immediate.

It seems to me like there are a lot of very cool ideas that use demon lords with the stats as written in the FC.

 

[LoneWolf23]

The Rejuvenation concept reminds me of the Demon Lords of the "Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire" webcomic's universe.. Basically, the nature of that world's Hell is that.. Well, as seen here:

"Karnak fell into Hell a whole and living man. But the fires of Hell did not consume him. They warped him.

His rejection... His anger... His Jealousy... All fueled the Infernal Flames.

When a Demon Lord falls, another rises to take it's place in Hell's Hierarchy...

And so it was that my dear friend Karnak became Lord Karnak, the Demon of Wounds."

Ok, so the hierarchy thing sounds like it would fit the Nine Hells better then the Abyss, but who's to say that both Infernal Planes don't share some traits?

 

[Crothian]

I actually think taking this philosophy makes me like the demon lords MORE than having them be near-deities. The reason: if the other demons are nipping at their heels, that means they must be both cunning and tenacious in order to maintain control over tough competitors for that long. Sort of a survival-of-the-fittest mentality.

Are the demon lords as stated more intellgent and wise then Pit Fiends, Balors, and other uber demon/devils? If they are that could help show how they are holding their power, not through pure force of arms but intelligence.