Rystil Arden
First Post
Uder, you seem to be misunderstanding again on all three counts, but I don't want to derail this thread any further. If you'd like to start a new thread on this, I'll be glad to join you there.
Hordes of the Abyss.
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
Erik Mona said:
I may have read into it a bit. It says the qlippoth dominated the Abyss and ruled the first layer of the Abyss and all of the tanar'ri. From how I read it, it seemed like the first layer was all there was, at least everything that was important.
I guess what I was thinking was that, since the book said the eladrins only invaded the first layer - one 666th of the whole - their genocide couldn't have been as thorough as they seem to have expected it to be. I mean, going in there trying to exterminate the plane's ruling species and not advancing beyond Pazunia? Logically, then, the other layers must not have existed.
Rereading that, it says the tanar'ri fled to deeper layers after the eladrin-led genocide, so I guess there were some. I assumed they were new-created, but it doesn't seem to have said so specifically.
All right, I concede. I seem to have made that up.
Gold Roger
First Post
JustaPlayer said:
Nor do I.
I never claimed everything should be beatable. But in some manner demon lords should be beatable at the pinacle of mortal power and for me and many others that's 20th level.
JustaPlayer
First Post
So what you are saying is, "I only play to 20th level so I want to beat everything. It's not enought that there are a billion and one creature out there for me to go against. I want these ones. Oh, a btw to hell with those guys why want any kind of epic support, they have 10 or so things to fight." Correct me if this assumption is wrong.Gold Roger said:
Yes they give you some suggestions for how the creatures should look, but come now.... that really isn't support is it.
I could suggest that if you want to fight Orcus at 20th level, take a balor, slap a wand on him and call him Orcus.
[Edit] The point there being do you really need another statistical write up for a creature who's basic power level and abilities have been covered a couple hundred times?
Last edited:
Mirtek said:
No, the rule about hit points doubling in a god's home plane wasn't introduced until 1987 with the Manual of the Planes. Deities & Demigods didn't explicitly give a deity any greater powers at home - it just said:
"All creatures are more powerful in their own territory, so it should be next to impossible for anything except another deity to slay a deity on its own plane - and direct confrontation between deities is extremely rare. Should mere characters be so brazen as to challenge a deity on its home plane, they should be dealt with severely, the god bringing to bear all the powers that the being has." - DDG, page 11.
But yes, Deities & Demigods was released after Q1, since it references Q1 within it.
Gold Roger
First Post
JustaPlayer said:
Yes, that's indeed the rude, snarky and egocentric version of what I said. Lacking the point that I repeatetly say that I sorry for those that like epic gameplay, but think that they have to understand that, as things stand, they are a minority playing more a variant system rather simply advanced levels of D&D. I may even try epic level someday, but as a variant system, not part of the base system.
It's not the stats that interest me. There's more critters out there. It's exactly the mythology that interests me in using these guys.
If I thought I was a minority with my position I'd just suck it up, but as far as I know, the majority of D&D players tops out it's games at 20th level max.
JustaPlayer
First Post
I have so say then like before, you can use any ol' stats that are around that level and take the rest of the fluff from any epic version. The problem as I see it is that this is a place that the epic rules had a place they could shine.Gold Roger said:
Yes, epic play is the minority but that doesn't mean there should be 0 support. By that analisis there should be no other role play systems as they are the minority.
Whether they are the monority or not, the conversation on these boards suggest that there is enough of a base out there that there should be support. Not asking for much, just a few pages or so maybe up to 10 pages which is the minority of a book.
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