House rule brainstorming: grappling sucks

[blargney the second]

I haaaaate grappling in 3.X, and I'm about to start DMing a new PF campaign. It's far too complex, and I'd like to come up with some ideas to house rule it into the simplicity range of bull rush or overrun.

I'd love to hear some ideas!
-blarg

 

[RangerWickett]

Hm.

If you're trained in 'unarmed combat,' (treat it as a martial weapon), you no longer provoke for attempting trip/disarm/grapple/etc. The 'Improved xx' feats still grant you a bonus to the attempt, but any trained warrior can try to grapple without getting stabbed in the face due to an attack of opportunity.

Next, you can make an unarmed attack against a target's touch AC to grab it. If you grab a creature, the creature is immobilized. It can break free by succeeding a Combat Maneuver roll.

While you have a creature grabbed, you can use an attack to make a Combat Maneuver roll to attempt any of the following:

1. Grapple the target. It takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls and checks [except to break from the grab], can't do any actions that require two hands, and must succeed Concentration checks to cast spells.

2. Pin the target if it's already grappled. (A pinned creature is helpless and can take no physical actions other than to try to break the grab.)

3. Use the target as a human shield if it's grappled or pinned. You gain cover, and attacks that miss because of the cover can hit your human shield.

4. Trip, disarm, or bull rush. You gain a +5 bonus to your roll, because you have extra leverage.

How's that?

 

[Rogue Agent]

Check out Super Simple Grappling. It's for 3.5, but it shouldn't be too hard to make it PF-friendly.

 

[Li Shenron]

I haaaaate grappling in 3.X, and I'm about to start DMing a new PF campaign. It's far too complex, and I'd like to come up with some ideas to house rule it into the simplicity range of bull rush or overrun.

Step 1 - Make a touch attack that provokes AoO to grab
Step 2 - Make opposed grapple checks to secure the grappling

Once successful, the following are what you can do on your turn while grappling:

Option A - Deal unarmed damage with an opposed grapple check, using one of your attacks
Option B - Force your target to move with you with an opposed strength check, using your move action

The following are what your target can do on his turn while grappled:

Option A - Escape the grapple with a grapple or escape artist check (vs your grapple check), using one of his attacks
Option B - Force you to move with him with an opposed strength check, using his move action

Conditions: treat both in the grapple as flat-footed.

(This is as simple as I can think about...)

 

[JRRNeiklot]

My simple grappling rules: Anyone who even brings up grappling at the table immediately loses a level.

 

[blargney the second]

These are very helpful ideas - thank you! I'm starting to figure out the specific components of grappling that cause me headaches.

1) The distinction between grapple attacker and defender.
2) The limited but extensive list of actions you can take while grappling. Exacerbated by 1) above.
5) The hardcore bondage and pinning options also annoy me.

If that stuff got removed, I think I could live with grappling.

 

[Li Shenron]

1) The distinction between grapple attacker and defender.

That is usually because one of the two wants the grapple (because it's stronger) and the other doesn't (because it's weaker).

But maybe you can just remove the distinction.

As long as only one of the two wants the grapple to continue, the other needs to make a check to break free, but if both want the same thing there is no need to check, either they both end the grapple or keep grabbing each other.

In the case of my previous suggestion, all three options are there available to both characters:

Option A - Deal unarmed damage with an opposed grapple check, using one of your attacks
Option B - Force your target to move with you with an opposed strength check, using your move action
Option C - Escape the grapple with a grapple or escape artist check (vs opponent's grapple check), using one of your attacks

With the caveat that C automatically succeeds if the opponent forgoes his own check because he agrees to end the grapple.

2) The limited but extensive list of actions you can take while grappling. Exacerbated by 1) above.
5) The hardcore bondage and pinning options also annoy me.

If that stuff got removed, I think I could live with grappling.

I agree. 99% of the time the reasons why starting a grapple are (a) deal damage more effectively (this is normally useful only for monsters who can for example swallow you whole after grabbing you, but your PC might have some special ability too) or (b) force-moving someone (including also forcing it not to move).

So these are the 2 things you need to have a rule for, everything else IMHO is too specialized to be useful/interesting for the majority of the gaming groups...

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

"Grappling for Begginners" by [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]

Available on the enworld store front.. it is the best streamline of 3x grappling rules I know of.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[blargney the second]

Here's my current thinking for a simplified grapple system. This is for Pathfinder, so all grapple checks are CMB vs CMD. Feedback is most welcome!
-blarg


Step 1 - Make a touch attack to grab. Provokes an AoO from your target.
Step 2 - Make a grapple check to secure the grappling, with a penalty equal to any AoO damage.

If successful, both you and your target acquire the grappled condition*. The following extra options become available to a grappler during their turn. They require a standard action and a grapple check to execute.

1) Force your target to move with you, up to half your speed.
2) Escape (can also use escape artist check). This automatically succeeds as a free action instead if both grapplers are willing to end the grapple.


*Note that the grappled condition imposes penalties to a bunch of other options that remain available, as usual.

 

[Ahnehnois]

My simple grappling rules: Anyone who even brings up grappling at the table immediately loses a level.

What happens when someone brings up negative levels?