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House rule to Replace the flat DC15 for massive damage
- Thread starter IceBear
- Start date
da chicken
First Post
Death from massive damage is a very poorly thought out mechanic.
According to the PH, the amount of hit point damage you take doesn't determine how severe the wound is. The severity of the wound also relates to how many hit points you have. They cite the example of a character with 50 hit points taking 5 damage, and a second character with 10 hit points taking 5 damage. Clearly the second character took a more damagig wound.
Now DFMD says the no matter what your HP total, a blow that deals 50 damage can be lethal. Huh? So, I can have 1,000 hp, and if I suffer one attack that deals 50 (5% of my life total) I might die. But a 1st level PC with 10 hit points might take 9 damage from a single attack (90% of his life total) and wouldn't have a problem.
A tad inconsistent, aren't we?
Suggested house rule:
If a single blow deals at least 50 hit points of damage and that damage is more than half the creature's maximum hit point total, then you must save vs DFMD. Say, DC = 5 + (damage dealt / 5) for normal. Increase the base DC if you want it more difficult.
According to the PH, the amount of hit point damage you take doesn't determine how severe the wound is. The severity of the wound also relates to how many hit points you have. They cite the example of a character with 50 hit points taking 5 damage, and a second character with 10 hit points taking 5 damage. Clearly the second character took a more damagig wound.
Now DFMD says the no matter what your HP total, a blow that deals 50 damage can be lethal. Huh? So, I can have 1,000 hp, and if I suffer one attack that deals 50 (5% of my life total) I might die. But a 1st level PC with 10 hit points might take 9 damage from a single attack (90% of his life total) and wouldn't have a problem.
A tad inconsistent, aren't we?
Suggested house rule:
If a single blow deals at least 50 hit points of damage and that damage is more than half the creature's maximum hit point total, then you must save vs DFMD. Say, DC = 5 + (damage dealt / 5) for normal. Increase the base DC if you want it more difficult.
Dark Dragon
Explorer
Ok, but how would you rule it for larger or tougher creatures (e.g. with 500 hp)?
I'm just interested, because I don't like DFMD rule too.
I'm just interested, because I don't like DFMD rule too.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
An interesting twist that could be borrowed from d20Modern is for a failed Fort save to put you at -1hp (and dying) rather than instantly blasted to oblivion.
Allanon
Explorer
We'll I myself am playing in a campaign in which if a source deals more than half you're hitpoints in damage plus 10 you need to make a saving throw for massive damage... mmm... combining this with Hollywood's system could be nice. 
For example:
Krusk has 70 Hitpoint. A fireball deals him 55 hitpoints of damage he has to make a saving throw for MD.
Mailee has 20 hitpoints if a source deals her 20 points of damage she also has to make a saving throw for MD.
We found that even at low levels this works. Oke the 4 hp wizard can be successfully killed with a mere 12 damage if he fails his save, but he would have bled to death in 2 rounds anyway.
This way a Ancient Dragon with 300 hitpoints doesn't die when the wizard casts a maximized fireball and the DM throws a 1 #&^$&#^%&#
For example:
Krusk has 70 Hitpoint. A fireball deals him 55 hitpoints of damage he has to make a saving throw for MD.
Mailee has 20 hitpoints if a source deals her 20 points of damage she also has to make a saving throw for MD.
We found that even at low levels this works. Oke the 4 hp wizard can be successfully killed with a mere 12 damage if he fails his save, but he would have bled to death in 2 rounds anyway.
This way a Ancient Dragon with 300 hitpoints doesn't die when the wizard casts a maximized fireball and the DM throws a 1 #&^$&#^%&#
Last edited:
Gez
First Post
Were I to houserule, here's the system I would go with:
Massive Damage Threshold equals 2 times Constitution score.
It is further multiplied this way:
Fine /8
Diminutive /4
Tiny /2
Small ×1
Medium ×1
Large ×1
Huge ×2
Gargantuan ×4
Colossal ×8
Hence, a colossal creature's MDT is equal to 16 times its Constitution score.
The save is at a fixed DC of 20. If failed, the character is reduced to -1 hp (if he wasn't already in the negative).
Agony has been house-ruled as well. You roll for stabilisation every Constitution rounds (1 minute for a 10 Con). Stabilizing someone with a Heal check requires 10 consecutive full-round actions.
It is possible for someone to be technically dead (at -10) and yet perform one "last breath" free action (like saying "my murderer is... aargh") during the Wisdom rounds after the last failed stabilization check. (Technically dead means at this point, it's too late for healing, even magical. So, the last breath action could not be casting a quickened cure light wounds on oneself, as that would not work.)
Stabilization check is no more a 10% chance for everyone, but a Fortitude save DC 20.
Massive Damage Threshold equals 2 times Constitution score.
It is further multiplied this way:
Fine /8
Diminutive /4
Tiny /2
Small ×1
Medium ×1
Large ×1
Huge ×2
Gargantuan ×4
Colossal ×8
Hence, a colossal creature's MDT is equal to 16 times its Constitution score.
The save is at a fixed DC of 20. If failed, the character is reduced to -1 hp (if he wasn't already in the negative).
Agony has been house-ruled as well. You roll for stabilisation every Constitution rounds (1 minute for a 10 Con). Stabilizing someone with a Heal check requires 10 consecutive full-round actions.
It is possible for someone to be technically dead (at -10) and yet perform one "last breath" free action (like saying "my murderer is... aargh") during the Wisdom rounds after the last failed stabilization check. (Technically dead means at this point, it's too late for healing, even magical. So, the last breath action could not be casting a quickened cure light wounds on oneself, as that would not work.)
Stabilization check is no more a 10% chance for everyone, but a Fortitude save DC 20.
Allanon said:This way a Ancient Dragon with 300 hitpoints doesn't die when the wizard casts a maximized fireball and the DM throws a 1 #&^$&#^%&#
Yes, to even get the MDT you need to do 160 hp of damage. So a maximized empowered fireball only does 90 points of damage... which means the chances of doing 160hp of damage in one blow is going to be very small. We use the Death from Massive Damage Based on Size (MDToS) variant instead except bumped 10 points upwards. Remember that hit points don't reflect purely damage taken, but rather damage, fatigue, ability to avoid damage, etc. all rolled into one. I do think that if you throw the Clobbered variant into the mix with MDT along with MDToS and only being reduced to -1 on a successful Fort. roll, you get a decent system that doesn't brings a bit more "worry" to the PCs in terms of dying, so maybe they think more before wading into combat.
IceBear
Explorer
This is what I think I'll use for my campaign - it adds *some* realism to the system but keeps things sufficiently heroic for a D&D game that my group likes:
Massive Damage Threshold (MDT) is 1/2 maximum hitpoints (round up).
Anyone taking damage from one source equal to or greater than 1/2 maximum hitpoints must make a Fort save
DC for Fort save = 10 + [(Damage - MDT)/5] (rounded down)
Character that fails the save is reduced to -1 hp (at least) and is dying.
IceBear
Massive Damage Threshold (MDT) is 1/2 maximum hitpoints (round up).
Anyone taking damage from one source equal to or greater than 1/2 maximum hitpoints must make a Fort save
DC for Fort save = 10 + [(Damage - MDT)/5] (rounded down)
Character that fails the save is reduced to -1 hp (at least) and is dying.
IceBear
IceBear said:
Mine too likes it heroic. But isn't that pretty much negating the ability for the higher leve PC's to get that heroic hit on a demon or dragon that takes the monster down?
Seems to me, that it causes the PCs more problems than it does the monsters, when it should be the other way around for a more heroic campaign. No?
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