Houseruling clerics and paladins

[randomling]

Has anyone done this (oh, I'm sure they have...) and if so, what have you done? Did it have to do with a specific pantheon, or just your own idea of what divine power ought to be like?

For my next campaign I'm thinking of implementing a few house rules, mostly to do with paladins, but which will affect clerics a bit. It'll make paladins a teeny bit stronger, clerics a little bit weaker, and Extra Turning slightly more useful as a feat. (Please note: part of the reason behind this is that I'm not sure I intend to run a very undead-heavy campaign.)

First, I think that paladins ought to have a good Will save as well as a good Fort save. I think a paladin should be a strong-minded and virtuous hero who resists attacks on mind and body to the last.

Second, I want to make the Detect Evil at will ability slightly more interesting. Instead of simply saying "I detect evil", my paladin has an "evil sense". Effectively, her detect evil ability is always on. If evil auras are in range, she senses them automatically, and gets a general sense of their combined strength, from weak ("oh, it's vaguely uncomfortable here, there's a zombie down the hall or something"), to overpowering ("make a Will save"). Concentration narrows down the number of auras, their individual strengths, and eventually their sources (if visible). Concentrating on the evil sense is a standard action which provokes an attack of opportunity and is subject to disruption just like a spell.

This is mostly an RBDM and flavour one, I think. It's nice to be able to tell your paladin to make a Will save at random -- but just as cool to tell them they feel slightly uncomfortable in the house because "it's evil"....

Third and last, I want to combine turning undead, smite evil, and spontaneous casting of cure/inflict spells into a single ability called "channel divine energy" (or something). The cleric or paladin can channel a number of times per day equal to 3 + Cha modifier. A paladin can channel energy into a turning attempt or a smite attempt; a cleric can channel energy into a turning attempt or a spontaneous cast. Extra Turning is renamed Extra Channeling and gives your four extra channeling attempts per day each time you take the feat.

Any comments? (Aside from telling me the paladin should be a PrC... I know people think that but there's enough debates on that.)

 

[Crothian]

You might also want to tie lay of hands ability into the channel divine energy ability.

I like the idea of tieing them all together though.

 

[randomling]

I thought of that, but my problem with it is that Lay On Hands is hp/day rather than times a day. Maybe you can heal up to your hp limit with one channeling attempt, though?

 

[Crothian]

That could potentially be a lot of healing. Iguess it really depnds on how strong you want the Paladin class to become

 

[randomling]

That could potentially be a lot of healing. Iguess it really depnds on how strong you want the Paladin class to become

It's pretty strong already, is the thing. I don't want to overpower it compared to the other classes, though.

So how would I tie it in with energy-channeling without overbalancing paladins till they crash through the floor?

 

[Crothian]

Redefine how the lay on hands ability works. Maybe have it equal to level times half charisma modifier.

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Third and last, I want to combine turning undead, smite evil, and spontaneous casting of cure/inflict spells into a single ability called "channel divine energy" (or something). The cleric or paladin can channel a number of times per day equal to 3 + Cha modifier. A paladin can channel energy into a turning attempt or a smite attempt; a cleric can channel energy into a turning attempt or a spontaneous cast. Extra Turning is renamed Extra Channeling and gives your four extra channeling attempts per day each time you take the feat.

Just to be clear: The Cleric's "channeling" means that in order to spontaneous cast, say, Cure Light Wounds, they've got to both give up a prepared 1st level spell and a channeling attempt?

That sounds fine, if so.

As to Laying on Hands, I guess that you could give the Paladin his ordinary hit point limit, and also say that he had to use a Channeling use for each distinct time he used it per day.

So, uh, if the Paladin had a 10 hp limit on his Lay on Hands, and five Channels, he could Lay on Hands once for 10 hp and smite/turn 4 times, or do two 5 hp Lay on Hands, and three smite/turns...

That might be a helpful counterbalance to your buffs of the Paladin class otherwise.

 

[randomling]

Mike, yeah, that's the idea. I was a bit worried about nerfing clerics, but you think that sounds OK? Phew!

That's a great idea: to leave the HP limit on, and also make her use a channelling attempt each time. Cool, my houseruled paladin now seems to make sense, and with a minimum of fuss!

Thanks.

 

[boothbey]

Doesn't sound like a bad idea Randomling. But as for making turning more useful etc...there are a lot of feats in Defenders of the Faith that are powered with turn attempts.

And I hope the paladin has a chance to shut of the detect evil if he gets a hint of something that will force the will save. heh

I think limiting the number of spontaneously cast healing spells might not be such a good thing. The one thing it will do is make clerics memorize more healing spells I think.

Depending on their charisma bonus of course, clerics with high charisma will have more chance to spontaneously heal. But clerics with low charisma will have to memorize more healing spells thus taking away from their other spell capabilities. If you are ok with that, then idea is fine.

And what are you thinking about? Not using liberal amounts of undead in a campaign! Shaaaaame on you.

 

[randomling]

So this all adds up to an incentive for clerics to have a good Charisma? Good.

In all seriousness -- IMC, clerics are not common, and where they are found they are religious leaders, chosen by the Gods just like paladins are (though in a different function, obviously). It makes sense for clerics to be charismatic, I think.

I've got DotF by the way, and I think the divine feats are great, but I wanted to do something interesting with all that divine power clerics and paladins seem to have buzzing around. Turning, spontaneous casting, lay on hands and smite evil all seemed to be powered by the same basic thing anyway, so conflating them just looks kind of sensible to me.

I think, yes, a paladin can turn the evil sense on and off as a free action, but it's on by default, if you like.