How a DM can counter cheesy PC tactics w/o using cheesy DM tactics.

[FlimFlam]

In a certain campaign I am in (I am one of the players) we have a tactic where I (the Cleric) cast Deeper Darkness on an object (like a coin) and Blindsight on our Rogue. When ever a battle occurs, we expose the coin, clouding most of the battlefield in darkness. Then the Rogue unleashes sneak attack hell on our enemies. As a PC, this is a very cool and effective tactic, but I think the DM is getting a bit frusterated because he can't really counter this tactic w/o getting cheesy.

What do I (we) consider cheesy?

1) Attacking us with creatures that are immune to sneak attack. This wouldn't stop the tactic, just make it less effective.

2) Attack us with spell casters that can dispel or counters our tactic.

3) Attack us with creatures that also have blindsight and can see in the darkness.

Now these are all viable options, but the reason they are just as cheesy is because, well, you can only throw so many undead, spell casters or bats at us before it gets redundant.

Not sure exactly what I am looking for here. I guess I am just wondering if anyone has had any similiar problems in their campaign with tactics such as these? Any suggestions on how a "normal" monster (such as an ogre for example) could get around the whole darkness/blindsight/sneak attacking rogue and be some actual competition?

 

[Derren]

4) Rule that the sight Blindsight gives you is not accurate enough to allow sneak attacks.

 

[aliensex]

Well, anything he will do to counter this specific tactic will seem cheesy, simply because he is purposefully countering this specific tactic. You must go up against enemy spell casters at some point, so having them doing dispells is not entirely unreasonable. Having more surprise encounters may make things more challenging, as well as beefing up the encounters themselves a little, requiring you do this tactic.

Do you cast Blindsight on the rest of the party? How do the fighters, etc. deal with the darkness?

 

[Bastoche]

Using area of effect devices. Fireballs. Oil flask and the likes in the darkened area. Blindsight is only 5' away (the feat right ? I don't know any blindsight spells...) so the rogue won't even see it coming (penalities to saves I guess).

Going away from the darkened area and gunning the rest of the party with arrows.

Pit falls within the darkened area or other sorts of trap that couldn't be seen from 5' away.

Where is the blindsight coming from ? You have a rogue with a wisdom of 19 ?

If the blindsight comes from the ninja of the crescent moon PrC, you're at a high enough level to require more challenging encounters. And the NOTCM is unbalanced IMO to begin with... If it's from a spell maybe the spell level is too low ?

I think over coming PCs with a huge amount of low HD creatures is fun: the fights last longer and the statistics fall in favor of the DM on average.

 

[Synicism]

Generally, the rule we use is that a rogue can make one sneak attack per round, period. This is generally enough to keep him in line. He still hits hard, but he isn't effectively launching a fireball with every hit.

There are also other ways to deal with the stiuation. If your party's whole strategy involves using darkness and sneak attacks, then a good counter would be to engage them from range. Flying archers or spellcasters would really do a number on them you guys.

 

[FlimFlam]

Blindsight is a level 3 or 4 Cleric spell from Magic of Faerun.

 

[IceBear]

This is the reason I won't allow this spell in my games, IF, any of my players asked to use it.

IceBear

 

[Berk]

The way I always thought of blindsight is that you can basically get a general shape of an object but not pinpoint enough to do sneak attacks since to do a sneak attack you need to be able to determine anatomy a lil bit. Since blindsight just gives you a general shape, it is basically radar cept a bit cruder, you can't really discern anatomy good enough to sneak attack.

 

[FlimFlam]

This is true. Maybe I'll bring that point up the to DM next time this occurs. But that still gives the Rogue the ability to do damage, while the opponents get a 50% miss chance on him.

 

[IceBear]

The way I always thought of blindsight is that you can basically get a general shape of an object but not pinpoint enough to do sneak attacks since to do a sneak attack you need to be able to determine anatomy a lil bit. Since blindsight just gives you a general shape, it is basically radar cept a bit cruder, you can't really discern anatomy good enough to sneak attack.

I agree with this, but unfortunately there is nothing in the rules to prove that so that's not good enough (unfortunately)

IceBear