D&D 5E How broken is Long Death Monk at 11th level or higher?

[pemerton]

I don't think "exploit", or the OP's term "broken", is a good way to describe Mastery of Death. But it does have potential for unforeseen, and possibly undesired, consequences.

The first potential for wonkiness is along the lines of things other people have brought up. When the monk knows he can't die, it enables outlandish behavior like swimming in lava or dancing in a blade barrier. Many people won't see this as being any more of a problem than abstract hit points and other game mechanics. But I think Master of Death takes a few more chips away at verisimilitude (for those that care about it).

I don't see how it is "outlandish" that a master martial artist, who has Mastered Death, can temporarily resist the heat of lava, or dodge and parry the blades of a Blade Barrier.

Mastery of Death has some interesting effects on resource management. If managing hit points and healing is a factor in your game, this changes the game a lot. If you know an enemy has the ability to hit hard, it suddenly becomes better to tank with a 1 HP monk than a 100 HP warrior. After all, Ki can be completely replenished after a short rest, but HP takes a long rest, and HD takes two days. Again, lots of people probably won't care. But for those that do it can result in significant changes to tactics.

One of the complaints some people have about 5e in general is that it's too easy to not die (especially compared to early editions). This ability just exacerbates that problem. And, IMNSHO, the ability to not care about death just screws with the story sometimes. Does the bad guy have me pinned to a wall with a gun against my head, demanding I tell him my secrets or die? Who cares? By 13th level he'll have to reload his six-shooter twice before I have to make a death save. Have you ever had to choose which friend to save with only seconds to keep them alive? Well, your Death monk friend is guaranteed to last an extra minute even if he's unconscious.

Isn't the point of character abilities to be used by players to affect the game? I can't see how the things you describe here could be problems. I mean, as Gygax described way back in his DMG a dragon can have the 100 hp fighter chained to the cliff, ready to breathe, and the fighter can survive that fiery breath with a lucky saving throw: or three breaths from an adult red dragon with three successful saves (32 hp per successful save).

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Their ability to dodge as a bonus action overcomes their lower AC and I will also point out that their AC is not lower than classes using 2d6 weapons. It is slightly lower in early tier 2 if the fighters can get plate (but that is not universal in early tier 2. But by 8th level a Monk AC is as good as plate. Now it is not as good as plate and shield, but characters using plate and shield are not using 2d6 weapons.

If you're using your bonus action to dodge, you're not using it for Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows, which is the only thing that can keep the monk's damage output anywhere near competitive with other classes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Physics lesson. Next time you are in school pay attention, I usually get paid to do this.

Archimedes' Principle states (in short): "upthrust equals weight of fluid displaced". The human body has a density that is fractionally less than water (it is mostly made of water after all) so it sinks until it is almost fully immersed. At this point upthrust prevents it sinking any further. Since your arms and legs are immersed in water, you are able to swim. Molten lava has a density of around two and a half times that of water (depending on the type of rock). This means that you will sink until around 40% of your body is immersed, then upthrust prevents you sinking any further. If you where upright, this would be about half way up your thighs. Since your arms and legs are not immersed in the lava, you cannot swim through it.

An earth elemental would have a density similar to molten rock, so it would be able to swim through lava the way a human can swim through water.

Note that the end of the Lord of the Rings movie gets it completely wrong: Gollum, who is pretty lightweight, should float on the surface until he burns up. The ring should sink immediately, since gold is denser than lava. Revenge of the Sith is more accurate - Vader can crawl out of the lava because he is not dense enough to sink into it.

Yeah exactly I mean it’s not like you could lie down and stick your limbs into or something lol

What an absurd thing to even argue about. You two plannin on going out and dippin a toe in a lava pool, or what?

“Pay attention I usually get paid for this” good lord do you read your posts before you hit the button?

 

[ECMO3]

If you're using your bonus action to dodge, you're not using it for Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows, which is the only thing that can keep the monk's damage output anywhere near competitive with other classes.

Sure, but the claim was Monks have lower AC and the inability to use 2d6 weapons. Both of these things are true individually but not at the same time.

Using martial arts in tier1 and tier 2 your base damage is slightly higher than a character using 2d6 weapons, while also generally having a roughly equal AC to a Fighter or Paladin (depending on how fast plate becomes available) and a better AC than a Barbarian or Ranger using a 2d6 weapon.

Using Bonus action dodge in tier 1 and tier 2 gives you a substantially better AC than someone in plate and shiled while doing substantially less damage.

 

[ECMO3]

Yeah exactly I mean it’s not like you could lie down and stick your limbs into or something lol

Well the only thing inportant for this discussion is my DM let me do it ..... and that is the real laws of physics in D&D.

 

[Umbran]

Physics lesson. Next time you are in school pay attention, I usually get paid to do this.

Condescending to the students like this limits your ability to teach. How about you keep it a bit more respectful, please and thanks.