D&D 5E How challenging is Out of the Abyss?

[Flamestrike]

Spoilers:


The adventure basically ends with the demon lords and their minions fighting each other in a giant melee, while the players maybe deal with some stragglers on the edge. The NPC fight is supposed to end with one demon lord (Demogorgon recommended by default) still standing, having used up resources, and with no surviving minions. Since they were all summoned here they basically don’t have magic items. That’s the Demogorgon fight the game presents the PCs with.

So the game is deliberately rigged for them to win then?

That's a different story.

 

[toucanbuzz]

So the game is deliberately rigged for them to win then?

That's a different story.

Correct. Demogorgon has heavily reduced stats and no minions based on the story (you collect components for a powerful spell to summon all the demon lords to 1 spot where they'll fight one another because that's what they do: destroy and consume). So he also wouldn't have lair actions or regional effects.

After that, like pretty much all demon lords and demons, his spells are a joke, his attacks while nasty, are limited in #. A prepared party at 12+ levels is going to have magic that'll help make him miss. After that, everyone is going to have magic weapons and probably know by now what spells not to use. With all that in mind, many PC weapon characters can easily do 100+ damage in a round by now.

He's nothing like his older forms, and perhaps that's intentional for the adventure to fight a watered-down version so you can put that on your character lifetime achievement board, but I didn't much care for any world (as I said in my last post) wherein in about 1 year, some mortals become strong enough to take out a demon lord that other mortals, devils, and demons have failed to topple over thousands of years. You used to have to be 20th level, decked out in artifacts, to stand a chance.

So, I buffed all of them up, and had an epic session by letting my PCs control demon lords in a big melee. Whoever survived the Royal Rumble was the target. A buffed Yeenoghu with around 100hps left was still scary, and more so if had I given him some version of Rakshasa magic resistance so he wasn't so damn vulnerable to magic missiles.

 

[Flamestrike]

After that, like pretty much all demon lords and demons, his spells are a joke, his attacks while nasty, are limited in #. A prepared party at 12+ levels is going to have magic that'll help make him miss. After that, everyone is going to have magic weapons and probably know by now what spells not to use. With all that in mind, many PC weapon characters can easily do 100+ damage in a round by now.

Yeah but ordinarily DG would have magic items (presuming they exist), and be prepared, and know what spells to use and what not to use.

If mortal PCs are ready... why isnt Demogorgon (aside from the DM not knowing how to run him).

Like... literally, stat up 5 x 12th level PCs (1 uncommon, 1 rare item each, point buy, AL rules in force). 1 Fighter (or Barb or Pali), 1 Rogue (or Monk or Ranger), 1 Wizard (or Sorcerer or Warlock) 1 Cleric (or Druid) and a Bard (because 5th wheels rock).

We can run a battle with DG and those guys in the encounter described above. While DG is somehow caught with his pants down, against a fully rested party (and that's absurd to begin with) in a straight up fight.

My money is on DG.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

If a DM wanted to make the battle a lot harder, it's easy enough to just not weaken Demogorgon. Another vicious option is that the Wand of Orcus is technically left on the battlefield. That could make things a lot deadlier.

My party actually weakened themselves. A few of the PCs got bored of waiting for the big demon scrum to resolve and decided to join in. Not that wise a decision.

 

[Guest 6801328]

A few of the PCs got bored of waiting for the big demon scrum to resolve and decided to join in.

I have a sudden image of the DM rolling out the dice for the demons* while the players watch. For hours.

*And roleplaying them all, using different voices for each.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Hah, that would've been the dullest for the players, but hilarious. They really didn't wait long at all - I think it had only been like a minute out-of-game before the one player was like "I want in on this!" and jumped into the fray.

I have a sudden image of the DM rolling out the dice for the demons* while the players watch. For hours.

*And roleplaying them all, using different voices for each.

 

[Dioltach]

I have a sudden image of the DM rolling out the dice for the demons* while the players watch. For hours.

*And roleplaying them all, using different voices for each.

Don't forget the miniatures! (I'm picturing this like the scene from Spaceballs.)
"You have provoked me for the last time, Grazzt!"
"Hahah, you're just showing off for Zuggtmoy. But she loves me now!"
"Ooh Grazzt, you're so sexy and manly, kiss kiss kiss!"

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

The players:

Don't forget the miniatures! (I'm picturing this like the scene from Spaceballs.)
"You have provoked me for the last time, Grazzt!"
"Hahah, you're just showing off for Zuggtmoy. But she loves me now!"
"Ooh Grazzt, you're so sexy and manly, kiss kiss kiss!"