and that is where A5e has one while 12 classes changed by 9 people does not, that was my point about them either losing cohesion or everyone sticking close to the baseline in order to avoid that, but yeah, we are saying the same thing
Okay, I never claimed that 9 different people making a dozen different changes all shared the same vision. A5e and ToV also don't share a vision. I don't see what that has to do with anything.
not sure how that is contradictory, 5e is not just WotC, so you treating them as identical gives WotC more power. At the same time they own the trademark, so whatever you create is by definition not D&D, it still can be 5e however.
the possibly was about compatibility, I do not know what you did, it can be compatible. You then clarified that you did want to make a D&D with those changes, and I replied that by definition whatever you create is not D&D, whether it is compatible or not, since you are not working for WotC.
I am not sure what it strengthens, we had several topics in this
Right, you are the one cedeing all control over the name "DnD" and what it means to WoTC. I acknowledge they own an IP and have the right to sell products.
Hasbro also owns "My Little Pony". That doesn't stop the fact that Wintermist made one of the most compelling fics I have ever read, using that IP, and posted online for free. Now, that work was not an officially sanctioned work, it isn't "canon" but... it is a story using the characters from "My Little Pony".
Now, sure, you could go forth claiming that the only things that count as DnD are the things that are officially made by WotC... but then none of us have ever played a single game of Dungeons and Dragons. Unless anyone here has played a pre-made adventure, with no edits, using a pre-generated character with no edits.
Now, maybe you want to say "well, making your own character is an obvious exception." Ok, what about our own lore and stories, is that an exception? Is any game that takes place in a setting not published by WoTC not DnD? Does that include any setting made by TSR? Does it matter if we alter those settings? After all, Ed Greenwood wrote the Forgotten Realms, but who hasn't added to it?
Or maybe story, lore, and characters are all exceptions and it is only the mechanics that count... but is it a game of DnD without those factors? If you strip it down to only mechanics is there anything left to even play?
sure, the subset contained within the SRD is identical. I never said you need specific monsters to be compatible, I said the foundation of D&D are the core books, not the SRD.
Anyone who adds a class or race is adding it to that foundation. The only time you get a new foundation is with a new set of core books.
But you aren't getting a new foundation, because you claim the foundation is the Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition System Reference Document is the foundation of those books. That means those books don't create a new foundation.
So the SRD is irrelevant then… it is important when you want to create an adventure and include the stat blocks for convenience, it is important when you create a new subclass or monster and want to describe its abilities the same way D&D does
yes, but it helps considerably
because that is what is included in it and it was created to allow for it to be used freely by third parties
If your emphasis is on ‘creates’ rather than ‘makes available to be used’ then it does not create it. D&D did that.
not sure where the loosest connection is coming from, I certainly never said that
It certainly is a separate entity in that you can freely use the SRD and cannot use D&D 5e itself. You might not consider an SRD that allows others to safely reference and copy a lot of content important, but I am pretty sure all 3pps do and understand the distinction between the SRD and D&D
If the goal is profit and selling a product, then sure the SRD is a useful tool. But people were making new monsters before that SRD was created. I myself was creating a new monster statblock for DnD 5e before DnD Next was finished being playtested. No SRD required.
All the SRD did was say "you are free to copy these parts of DnD 5th edition to use in the products you are selling" which is great for those people who wanted to make their products using that system, and sell them to the people who would buy them. But people keep putting forth this idea that now that the SRD exists and all these other alternative rule sets exist, 5e doesn't refer to the system created for Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition.
Yet despite how differently you form a class, despite how you might alter a spell list, you are still using 8+proficiency+stat mod for DCs. You are still using an action, bonus action, movement is free up to speed, you get 1 free item interaction, reaction model for the action economy. Ability scores are still turned into ability modifiers by subtracting 10 and dividing by 2. Modifier + proficiency bonus is still called being proficient, modifer + proficiency bonusx2 is still expertise. AC is still a number that is usually 10+ dex mod, or involves armor, and is the DC for striking an enemy with an attack that is usually mod+proficiency bonus, which is then followed by damage to an hp pool that is determined by rolling a set number of dice based on the nature of the attack.
The SYSTEM is still running the same code. These things are consistently done, and even if you change one or two of them, that is still part of the system. DR is a thing in the system, as shown by multiple items and feats that allow it. Resistance and vulnerability are aspects of the system. The System that defined what DnD 5e IS and WAS.
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