how dare you play evil!

[Jaya Ballard Balla'th]

Dude.
Seriously.
Evil is so not cool.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

This, I think, is the crux of the problem. >snip<

You hit the nail on the head here, most of the evils I've seen around lately have been the open, in your face, overdramatic, over the top, annoying evil that has little actal evil behind it and nothing more than something out of a Disney cartoon for planning.

Of my evil characters, a number of them are at least somewhat well known. None of them act openly (aside from how they may have when I started out, but I think I shed that state of mind a long time ago...) and all have at least a degree of mystery about their actions.

When I started with Tharivious on this site, he had retained his former evil alignment until the way his life turned helped bring him away from that to become the neutral being he is today. Tharivious is a former assassin who has, through his storyline and through tabletop games, left a trail of victims in his wake, both before and after his shift to neutrality. While no longer evil, his place in the setting I'm working on leads him to still serve as an assassin, although his actions now are to maintain the balance between good and evil, which still leads to evil acts being done.

Then there's Jaehral Ojaresk, a warrior of House Sril've Cress. Oftentimes when he's in the chats with other house members, he can be found discussing business such as capturing slaves/fugitives, training troops by striking small villages that can't fight back against his soldiers, and, especially when the more overtly evil house members are around, contemplating attacks on other patrons. However, when business ends, you can find him relaxing and just enjoying a break with friends, and you would never realize how evil he can become.

And for a storyline that should (hopefully) be starting soon, I've got a demon that should be around a bit more often. Chaotic evil to the core, but subtle and smart enough to not toss a fireball around in a crowded room of people, one who knows to select targets carefully and with patience, one who doesn't just act randomly against the first being he sees.

I'm not going to go through all of the ones that I have since most of my characters have at least a small dark side and that would take hours for me to type up, not to mention the waste of time that would be. The point is, if these darker aspects are left unchecked in a roleplaying environment, then yes, characters can get shoved aside because no one wants to be attacked 24 hours a day by the same person they dealt with yesterday. Without a player putting limits on their characters, including playing upon the intelligence that these supposed characters should posses, it's not going to be easy to have them get accepted, but when run in a thoughtful and intelligent way, they can become a welcomed, if grudgingly, part of the setting.

~~~~~~~

And incidently, I did know that Jardel was evil, but only by reading UH.

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

Hmm... I never realized that Jardel was evil, or a wanted criminal. But then, my character(s) never interacted with him enough to find out. So rest assured that they will remain blissfully ignorant of the fact. Then again, this might have been your intention all along, to remain covert...

Whether he actually is evil or not is potentially a matter of great debate, but suffice to say he has an aura that detects as pure evil and has more than enough nasty acts to his name to deserve it and a morality that means he's prone to "evil" behaviour from time to time. He also does quite a lot of good too, so it's really a matter of what balances out what. Regardless though he always has an evil aura.

However being a high int and wis character, he recognizes the value of simply not mentioning this to the majority of folk and letting them just assume he's not really that bad. After all, he comes to the tavern and Juxta to relax, and it's bad to build up a bad rept where you go to relax. He's quite happy to be dismissed as just mean, just humourless, etc. It makes his life so much easier.

He also takes a great deal of effort to keep his hands clean and great steps to ensure that anything he is involved with isn't traced back to him. While that means that I the player don't get to take credit for it, it is the way I prefer to play him.

Generally evil people, much like good and neutral people, have an agenda... the usual differences are perhaps the aim of the agenda and what means they'll go to in order to achieve it. However both of them still need to think about possible obstacles.

Obviously if you are an evil character visiting a civilized area... one of your obstacles is going to be the measures that the people there have to protect themselves against evil. Since you can really only change what your character will do, not what others will do, it's best to thing of ways an evil character might defeat those measures (and please not something like "he's so powerful he can!" or "he's so rich he can...") than expect as others to do the work for you.

If you look at it from that angle, there's plenty of room for all alignments (As Thavarious pointed out chaotic characters are not necessarily undisciplined or fatally impulsive) provided you just do a little planning in advance, remembering that your character is only going to be but one of many in the story.

As Dontella pointed out, everyone is an individual and everyone's going to do their own thing (much like in the rest of life). That's never going to change... which is a good thing, otherwise it'd be terribly boring and rather oppressive to the imagination.

 

[Fenmarel]

If you are having problems playing evil you are either trying to interact with the wrong folks or are playing the chaotic stupid type of evil. I've played evil on this site many many times and only one time did I ever have any problems and that was because I got involved in a joke of a storyline.

Now one problem with playing evil on this site is the many characters that can "smell" evil from a thousand yards though can't smell the dung they are shovelling in the aspect of their character's backstory. Now the most major problem with using the automatic "I can sense you are evil" tactic is using out of character knowledge. Not everyone has that ability nor should they though a few will come up with a lame excuse why they can.

No player should have to be concerned of OOC repercussions from their IC actions so long as they play their IC actions with respect to the other players and Code of Conduct.

In a perfect world that is very correct. Though this isn't never never land. There have been groups that have come and gone that have forced players off of this site many times. They use tactics that free them of any onsite punishment. Now this isn't rampant but occurs now and then. When it does happen we should take the offending parties, strap them to a table, place a curve bladed knife against their.........umm sorry about that my mind started to wander

Good luck to any that try to play evil. From what I have been hearing a well played antagonist is needed other than the ones that start trouble and run at the first sign that it is time to pay the piper. You never know some of us that have been away for a long time might come back for short periods of time to fill in those voids briefly. Not me though I can't play anything well

Jason

 

[shadow of death]

Hmmm....good points from all of ye. even our mysterious masked poster. I figgered that I had best go ahead and leave my thoughts, as i play a few rather well known evil folks, not limited to, but including everyone's favorite Drow Vampire and a Minotaur Blackguard of Bane. Throw in a couple other drow and a squidhead and I have a pretty good selection of evil types.

I enjoy playin them. I run them often. sure, there are some folks that I really don't like, or bother to RP with, but there are others that I enjoy. Mostly I just sit in the tavern and watch. sooner or later, someone comes along to RP with and I do. I don't wantonly kill, or try to kill folk or whatnot i just interact with them. Anything I want to do, I discuss with them on the ole PM. I have fun, most of the time, and if someone is offended/annoyed/ticked off/whatever by that, I could really care less, as I am here for me, not for them.

We all know Re'shak, the drow vampire of the local drow house, Sril've Cress. He is evil, mean, nasty, and just about anything else that means evil can be applied to him. People hate him. Some of those people hate him IC, and some hate him in OOC. Again, I could care less about it. Yet he persists to exist. Why? Cuz its fun to play evil when others around want to RP. Many people for one reason or another only RP with a select few. thats wrong and selfish and childish. I try to spread my evilness around .

So, mr "random role player," while I do understand your frustration, I would suggest ye get over it and just play yer characters.

*steps off box 'o soap*

 

[Fenmarel]

Actually I think that alot of us just wasted time with out posts. Why bother when someone can't even use a character name of their's or give some better background like specific instances including maybe a character of his that was involved. Just a random whiner.

Jason

 

[WizO_Pounamu]

People should not have to justify themselves specifically to bring up and discuss a general issue. If it is not worth discussing in a wide form, then it may not be worth replying to.

Not everyone is as comfortable in getting attacked as you, Fen.

Perhaps he just wanted advice without the pressure of ending up with people watching him to check that he bothers following it. *shrugs*

- Pounamu

 

[random role player]

Very true, Madame WizO. It may be that I play a character or two alongside the very people that have responded to my words posted not so long ago. Tell me true: would I be treated differently if that were the case and I posted what I did under a name that you are all familiar with? I think not. One might protest and say otherwise, but the idea would remain, and my future role playing sessions would pale in comparison to what they once were.

Of course, I could be one of the terrible "newbies." Ignored for the most part because I am not in one of the vaunted circles of characters already in play. Perhaps I simply sit and watch what transpires, and draw conclusions from what unfolds. Who is to say? Not I, and not anyone else.

Now, back to the original topic. Perhaps I was in error in the way I presented this. I think, after reading the responses that I should have posed my statement differently. I do understand what you all have said and I agree with some, and disagree with others. I simply wanted to make others aware that there is a problem in the role playing system. I see evil characters who are obviously evil sitting on their laurels drinking their wine and doing nothing. They trade barbs occassionally with others, but most simply sit and stare. Perhaps this is what they wish to do, or perhaps they are forced into this sedentary scene. I cannot say for sure. All I can say is that there should be more role playing and less playing at a role.

Of course, I could be wrong. I could be way off base, and all are completely happy with the status quo. But i doubt it.

This ends another installment. You may now recommense bashing me.

A random role player

 

[Jardel_Karabella]

Your faith in your fellow roleplayers is astounding... do you think perhaps your rants may be better received if you didn't make them attacks at people and WizOs (then cunningly disguise it with a disclaimer saying it's not an attack)? I reccomend that if you want people to take you seriously then you get off the high horse and act with the proper humility for someone who feels the need to post anoymously.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, exactly what are you trying to say?

That evil people shouldn't be allowed to sit around, drink wine and do nothing? Do not even evil folks require rest from time to time? And also how are you to know if if they arean't just roleplaying their character and covertly doing evil?

And... what exactly should they do doing instead that would improve the room without disturbing others?

Please, do share your view for how the things should be rather than just tell us how they shouldn't.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

As a side note, as someone who has posted a rant (or two) under his primary name, it doesn't have to affect your roleplaying experience if you don't let it. The one benefit of rants is to let some steam go and air out problems, talking them out with other players who can show you other sides of things can help resolve them, at least to a degree.
And I don't think anyone means any personal bashing here, I'd just attribute it to individual posting styles and take it with a grain of salt.

Jardel covered a lot of the things I was going to pick up on, so I'll just add in a few other things.

On the point of evil characters who just sit there... As Jardel mentioned, such evil characters might just be relaxing or covertly doing evil, there are a few other possibilities here. Again going back to what I mentioned before, just because you're evil doesn't by any means translate to having to be rash and impulsive about taking action, this applies to several archetypal villains in many ways.

• The assassin who must be selective about his targets, observing and studying those around him to ensure he chooses the right time, place, and person to strike.
• The corruptor who has to be sure to attempt to lure someone else to become evil at just the right moment in order to better insure success.
• The reactionary warrior who waits for someone to make a lapse in judgement and challenge him, thus putting any legal (IC legal) blame on the other person.

Just a few examples naturally, other types fall into this as well. While there are certainly moments in ISRP that might lead one to think otherwise, subtlety is not extinct here. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but just that there are times where it likely is.

As far as trading barbs, in a text based roleplaying game like ISRP, that can be a good way to help progress things toward overt evil acts, especially when there are those around who are reluctant to enter into combat or what-have-you. Verbal provocation is one of the classic methods of beginning a confrontation, not an act of cowardice or being idle. Just because not all arguments end in blades being drawn and a move to the clearing/arena doesn't lessen the tension they can cause, and in the long run, a well played verbal battle can be more interesting and more damaging than a well played physical fight.