TSR How Did I Survive AD&D? Fudging and Railroads, Apparently

[jayoungr]

We're back to the "multiple definitions of railroad" problem, which always comes up when that term enters discussion.

Some people use it to mean a linear campaign where one event leads to another and if the players try to wander "over there" and explore what's off the edge of the map, they miss out on the actual story.

Some people use it to mean a situation where it looks like there should be room to wander but the DM brutally shuts down any attempts to do so.

 

[overgeeked]

Your experiences just aren't as universal as you seem to think they are.

Exactly. Neither are yours.

You love railroading, that's great. It's not universally loved. But, whenever the topic comes up it's always the people defending railroading saying how the people who don't like it are not representative...and yet there are wildly more people openly talking about how railroading sucks.

It's weird how that double standard works. Your opinion and experience is somehow representative but mine isn't. Lots of people love 5E, therefore 5E is good. Lots of people hate railroading, but despite that railroading is still good. Somehow. Either broad consensus on a topic has weight or it doesn't.

It's so bizarre. It's like people will just defend their opinions regardless and cherry pick supporting anecdotes. But somehow that's not what you're doing, that's what the people you disagree with are doing. Hmm...

 

[Theory of Games]

We're back to the "multiple definitions of railroad" problem, which always comes up when that term enters discussion.

Some people use it to mean a linear campaign where one event leads to another and if the players try to wander "over there" and explore what's off the edge of the map, they miss out on the actual story.

Some people use it to mean a situation where it looks like there should be room to wander but the DM brutally shuts down any attempts to do so.

.... which is why these threads end up off the rails?

 

[Voadam]

Going back to the op point, I don’t think this is why people survived in AD&D. This is mostly just railroading for a specific plot and attempts at specific experiences.

Only one of the railroading points seems to help PCs survive, the BBEG in his lair sending out minor encounters against PCs he watches to play with them instead of immediately moving in for a kill.

Given his immortality absent the super weapon and his power status versus mere mortals such arrogant villain overconfidence can reasonably fit the set up.

The real surprise is PCs surviving low level games given low hp, little healing, and frequent combat.

 

[overgeeked]

The real surprise is PCs surviving low level games given low hp, little healing, and frequent combat.

Players learned real quick to avoid combat as much as possible.

 

[Voadam]

Players learned real quick to avoid combat as much as possible.

Yeah but even in situations like The Hobbit where you are not hunting monsters as the point of the adventure combat happens a bunch in most Basic and low level AD&D modules.

 

[overgeeked]

Yeah but even in situations like The Hobbit where you are not hunting monsters as the point of the adventure combat happens a bunch in most Basic and low level AD&D modules.

Eh. Basic and AD&D modules present a lot of opportunities for combat, yes. What actually happens in play is up to the players at the table. Opening a door, throwing in burning oil, and holding the door until the screaming stops is a common tactic for a reason. Getting the monsters to fight each other instead of the PCs is a common tactic for a reason. Player creativity thrived because combat was so deadly and best avoided.

 

[S'mon]

Eh. Basic and AD&D modules present a lot of opportunities for combat, yes. What actually happens in play is up to the players at the table. Opening a door, throwing in burning oil, and holding the door until the screaming stops is a common tactic for a reason. Getting the monsters to fight each other instead of the PCs is a common tactic for a reason. Player creativity thrived because combat was so deadly and best avoided.

And when that fails you go to the Sleep spells and the Turn Undead.

 

[pemerton]

Huh. Your D&D experiences sound terrible. I think you are projecting onto the "majority of D&D players."

I've had plenty of good D&D experiences, as well as some bad one. My inference about what is mainstream or "the majority" is based on what I read, what sort of advice I see circulated, how others describe their play, etc.

EDIT: and reading on through the thread, I see plenty of posts that are the sorts of posts that inform my inference.

 

[MichaelSomething]

May I suggest a world creation session(s) then? If you dislike railroading that much, then spending (up to) a dozen hours rolling dice, making tables, and filling out forms should be no problem? If you make a large/detailed enough world, a DM would have no need to railroad!