How do I deal with a rule lawyer?

[notjer]

I have been playing with some guys lately (as a PC) and I was wondering at the end: How do I deal with the rule lawyer in our game?

The Rule lawyer in our game is a guy who read rules all the time and always claim that the DM's NPC is overpowered and he cheats too much, however if he just knew the DM better, then he would know that the DM most of the time cheat because otherwise we would be dead. He gloats a lot when the DM does a minor faul with the rules and he tries to make the rules favor his own situation. Also he is a very bad roleplayer, we have a nickname for him: Butosei the manslayer (from a movie called bishomu or something like that), mainly because he does very screwed things which make no sense at all and metagame a lot. What to do with that kind of guy?

 

[Whisper72]

Sounds like the guy is not just a ruleslawyer, but an unpleasant individual in general. Gaming is supposed to be fun. Kick the guy out of the group.

 

[Sound of Azure]

A "Gamer Prenup" might be of benefit. Basically, a "rules of behaviour" for your group, including when you can bring up rules "problems", and how (usually this is after the game, except where character death will be involved, and in a polite, non-perjorative fashion).

 

[delericho]

If you're a player, then I would argue that it is for the DM to deal with... and that a player attempting to help would actually hurt the situation by usurping the DM's authority.

So, I would suggest quietly talking to the DM, about two things:

1) Perhaps the DM would benefit from a closer adherence to the RAW, and in particular in rethinking the ELs he's throwing at the party, so that he doesn't have to 'cheat' so often to save the party?

2) The DM, if he wants the rule-lawyer dealt with, needs to simply state that it's his game, he's interpreting the rules his way, and that the rule-lawyer's constant commentary is only damaging the game for all involved... and that the rule-lawyer should cut it out, or find a new game. (He'll probably want to phrase it more tactfully... but that's the gist of what I'd go with.)

 

[ShinHakkaider]

This guy sounds like an a** and no amount of attempting to be civil is going to work. If that's the way he behaves from the start he's already got it in his head that it's an acceptable way to behave.

Kick him out.

 

[Felix]

This guy sounds like an a** and no amount of attempting to be civil is going to work. If that's the way he behaves from the start he's already got it in his head that it's an acceptable way to behave.

Kick him out.

He also sounds like a guy frustrated with a DM who uses his DMPC as a deus ex machina whenever the PCs are in trouble. That is an incredibly annoying habit for DMs to fall into, and if that is indeed what the DM is doing, then I feel bad for the "ruleslawyer" as well.

If you consider that, then your unilateral "kick him out" ejaculation seems a bit... premature. Find out a little more before you condemn the poor guy.

 

[notjer]

The ELs DM use is just fine, but sometimes PC gets unlucky and then he help them a little with the dices instead of throwing weird antiencounter monsters into the battle. If they do stupid things then it is their own faul if they die.

The DM and I have been talking about just kick him out of the group, however he is outside the game a nice guy, but butosei the manslayer rule laywer posses him when he plays D&D. We really dont know how to deal with him except for the simple solution: kick him out. Last time we thought it would be nice to give him some tranquillizer-emotion medicin

 

[RFisher]

Hmm. As a recovering rules-lawyer myself... (^_^)

I suppose I could suggest trying a campaign with a ultra-light rules system. That's part of what I do to keep my inner-rules-lawyer in check: Give him fewer rules to play with. That's probably more covering up the problem than dealing with it, though.

I guess I'd try to discuss it out of game. Try to get him to see your point of view. Try not to be judgemental. Try not to take issue with his actions so much as to address the issues he has with how you run the game.

Ask him to give you a break. Explain that DMing is a big responsibility and that you really are doing the best that you can.

Also, be sure that you really listen to his opinions (both in game and out), and try to not appear preumptively dismissive. During the game, look for opportunities to leverage his rules knowledge by asking him about a rule you may be unclear about. Ask him to offer his advice rather than revel in your mistakes, but be clear that--while you will promise to truly consider his advice--you may have reasons for not taking it.

I think one of the best things you can do is try to use a more open style. Assume that the players can handle separating themselves from their PCs (whether they can or not). Let them see "behind the curtain". While the rules-lawyer may not agree with your decisions, he'll have a easier time accepting them if you let him see the whole picture. Now, I understand all the reasons you may have for not wanting to do this. It may be worth it--at least for a time--if it means improving the experience for everyone without losing a player.

While he may ultimately leave the group, I think it's best to let that happen on its own. If you're confrontational about it, you're more likely to reinforce his idea that his way is right & your way is wrong rather than helping him eventually realize that he needs to consider the point of view of others more and give people the benefit of the doubt more.

Hope something there helps.

 

[robberbaron]

Some players whinge that NPCs are too powerful because they simply want their character to be the biggest fish in the pond.
They need the ego boost. I guess they are a bit sad in RL.

We've got a player like that in our group. Back in the day, when we'd all run games for each other in the same setting, when he DMmed he'd go out of his way to kill off the other PCs so he'd have the most powerful character in the 'world'.
He's also about the worst for finding fault with DM rulings then conveniently forgetting the odd paragraph when it doesn't fit with what he wants to do.

The way I see it is, whatever the truth of the situation, if he's your friend you deal with it.
If he isn't your friend you kick him out/read him the riot act/kill his character/whatever.

 

[delericho]

The ELs DM use is just fine, but sometimes PC gets unlucky and then he help them a little with the dices instead of throwing weird antiencounter monsters into the battle.

In that case, I strongly advise that the DM stop fudging the dice, and let the PCs die. It will improve the game.