How do I describe "being marked" to players?

[WarpZone]

Also, remember to use the 4e "say what it is" concept. In other words, you can describe it as others have done here, but at the end of that description, you say "you're marked".

Just like bloodied. An enemy gets hurt, you can describe it's bleeding nose, but make sure the Players know it's bloodied, so they can use their awesome powers.

Oh, I understand. I would definitely say what it is. It's just that the most fun part of combat sometimes can be the descriptions we come up with to explain the behavior of the dice. (This is especially fun in Shadowrun, but it's branched out into all our games.)

A good fight narrated in 3.5 is like a fight scene in a movie. It sounds like the same fight in 4E would look more like a video game, with little icons floating over people's heads and dotted lines depicting temporary tactical relationships.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess it's conceptually no different than hit points. I just feel like too much information that can't be described actually detracts from storytelling.

Is D&D not a role-playing game any longer? (I'm not beating a drum here, just politely asking if the focus has deliberately shifted from role-playing to tactics.)

 

[The Little Raven]

Is D&D not a role-playing game any longer?

D&D is still, and will always be, a roleplaying game. Failure to roleplay is a failure on the part of the people involved, not a game system.

(I'm not beating a drum here, just politely asking if the focus has deliberately shifted from role-playing to tactics.)

Tactics and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive.

 

[WarpZone]

Good points, Mourn.

I guess as GM it's up to me to try and develop 4E to fit my group's play-style.

 

[stevelabny]

I finished my first run through of the PHB/DMG last night, and this was one of the threads I was going to start.

The paladin's mark is a divine compulsion, the fighter's mark is just...dangerous?

How often will an NPC/monster try to break against the mark and go after someone else instead? Should it be rarer to break from the paladin's mark due to the flavor text?

I'm guessing this is mostly self-policing and that they'd usually be better off sticking in melee with the one who marked them, but what if you have a halfing rogue who has a decent chance of avoiding the oppurtunity attack and having your movement stopped. It absolutely would be better to get the heck out of there and go flank someone else.

Any insight?

 

[Regicide]

Several of us actually did explain it. So please address what you perceive is wrong with our explanations. Instead of telling us we can't explain it.

You had a very good explanation but it failed to account for various things like multi-class who can mark multiple opponents oncer per encounter and who couldn't really take advantage of an opponent's openings. The fact that you can run away from the person that marked you, beyond their ability to follow, around a corner, but you STILL suffer the -2 to hit. The fact that you can't be marked by two people likewise makes no sense under your description, imagine being surrounded by 9 fighters yet somehow only 1 can mark you? Also lets face it, paladin marks are just plain weird since it's an unavoidable no-save compulsion.

There really isn't any good explanation for them. They're also somewhat cumbersome to keep track of, particularly as a DM and 8 of the creatures can mark the party on top of the party marking them. The game would have been better without them.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

I finished my first run through of the PHB/DMG last night, and this was one of the threads I was going to start.

The paladin's mark is a divine compulsion, the fighter's mark is just...dangerous?

How often will an NPC/monster try to break against the mark and go after someone else instead? Should it be rarer to break from the paladin's mark due to the flavor text?

I'm guessing this is mostly self-policing and that they'd usually be better off sticking in melee with the one who marked them, but what if you have a halfing rogue who has a decent chance of avoiding the oppurtunity attack and having your movement stopped. It absolutely would be better to get the heck out of there and go flank someone else.

Any insight?

The compulsion part of the power isn't flavor text at all. It's a full blown part of the power added in so that people know that it doesn't matter if the target can't understand word that the paladin said.

 

[WarpZone]

The tricky thing is, "marking" an opponent opens up other tactical possibilities, like bloodied, so some characters can build combos that start with marking an opponent and then exploiting that mark, next round.

This makes it real hard to just cut marks out of the game without ruining the mellee classes. I'd settle for a rename. Maybe "annoy," "fascinate," "draw fire," or "encroach," but none of these really cover all the possible moves that can mark you.

What does "mark" even mean? Maybe they're using a really old dictionary definition or something?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I can give an appropriate description for all types of marking, but it's a case by cse thing.

Fighter style of marking also lead to an AoO against a marked target that attack someone else. Needless to say it's fairly easy to describe ; you just can't lower your guard agains a fighter and the -2 penalty is easy to roll into the fact you just got whacked! Most of the early explanations in this thread covered that type of mark.

Common marking situations (The -2 without the AoO) that many monsters can do ; It is the same but just a little less intense. The marker in this case isn't as skilled as a fighter, but still requires your attention. You can attack someone else without provoking an AoO, but you can't focus entirely (You must keep an eye on the marker) explains why you can't perform your best attack. You can also explain it as the marker interfering with your attack.

What if you move away from the marker? If you did so by provoking an AoO, then use that attack to explain the -2. It put you off balance, hurts, was parried but now your sword arm is ringing etc...

What if you moved away by shifting? It was harder than usual to disengage because of how closely you were being marked (uesd in the sporting sense here) and this made you a fraction of a second off in finding your bearings and balance to attack someone else in the same round. Like a wide receiver that just barely slips his coverage but ends up in poor position to catch the ball.

 

[GoLu]

Mark can mean "to single out". As a noun, one of its less common definitions is "a thing you aim at".

Either way, being marked just means that your opponent is keeping you off balance or distracted. Having a fighter mark you is like having a really big guy decide to get in your face. Or for halfling fighters, I guess it's like having someone walk by and drop a wolverine in your lap. Even if it doesn't seriously hurt you, you are going to be a bit distracted from everything but the wolverine.

If you do run off, awesome. Except that it takes a round to calm down, recover your poise, and assure yourself that he's not following you. And after that you can take shots at other people with no penalty, because the fighter mark only lasts until the end of the fighter's next turn.


(Also, reminder: The free attacks the fighter gets on marked targets are immediate interrupts, not opportunity attacks. Important difference.)

 

[Mengu]

I think Mal hit the nail dead on. You just have to take each case on its own, and describe it as best you can. Also keep in mind, the game mechanics are not simulationist, so your descriptions don't have to be simulationist either.

For instance if an evil dragonborn fighter breaths acid on the whole party, marking everyone, you can describe this as, the acid continuing to burn and making it difficult to make attacks, but it also leaves the dragonborn open with his head extended, making it easier to attack him. Everyone is marked by the dragonborn fighter.

A more abstract approach would be, say there is a fight in a tavern, and there are upturned chairs and tables everywhere. When a brawler attacks and marks a rogue, then moves away to a door, you can say between all the chairs and tables, the rogue can't find many good paths to move, other than the one the brawler left in his wake leading to the door. The rogue is marked by the brawler.