How Do You Curb Table Talk?

[PowerWordDumb]

And what, exactly, have you contributed to this discussion other than put-downs of other people's opinions?

This thread was a question by someone who happens to have a different desired playing style than (apparently) most of the people on the board, and it seemed to me, reading it, that most people gave him the "get over it" answer. He took it very well; I don't know that I'd be that nice about it.

Corinth was not the poster, just someone with an all-too high opinion of his position as the DM who took issue with my very reasonable "be careful how you dictate the situation with your friends" advice. Hardly "get over it" or "your play style sucks" or anything like that - merely advice to be cautious in implementing the equally-unhelpful "crush them under your bootheel" advice he was getting.

You want to know what I've contributed? Try reading the whole thread instead of drawing conclusions from a reply to a detractor. A detractor, mind you, who was the first to come in and tell others their playstyle was wrong and that they weren't playing right. If you think I'm the only one with that opinion, read Mark Chance's post before flaming me. Thanks.

 

[Seonaid]

Corinth was not the poster, just someone with an all-too high opinion of his position as the DM who took issue with my very reasonable "be careful how you dictate the situation with your friends" advice. Hardly "get over it" or "your play style sucks" or anything like that - merely advice to be cautious in implementing the equally-unhelpful "crush them under your bootheel" advice he was getting.

You want to know what I've contributed? Try reading the whole thread instead of drawing conclusions from a reply to a detractor. A detractor, mind you, who was the first to come in and tell others their playstyle was wrong and that they weren't playing right. If you think I'm the only one with that opinion, read Mark Chance's post before flaming me. Thanks.

Yeah, I know that Corinth wasn't. And actually, the only part of my post that was directed to you was the first paragraph. The second paragraph was more to the posters in general.

I read the whole thread (edit: before I posted at all, that is). It seems to me that you do offer good advice. However, *I* felt that Corinth wasn't the only one who offered the opinion that he did (in similar words or not), and yet he was the one you responded harshly to. The difference, to me, between Mark Chance's post and yours is that it's obvious he was being light-hearted (smilies, though somewhat ridiculous, do have connotations). People are entitled to their opinions.

I wasn't intending to *flame* you. I'm sorry you took it that way. If you want to continue this conversation, we can do it on PM, in an OT thread, or via email (PM me for my address).

 

[Brekke]

After reading this entire thread I see two styles here people who get together to socialize and play a little DnD and those who get together to play and maybe do a little socializing.

I think the problem comes in when you try to mix the two styles of people. I for example want to play. If the out of game talk gets to the point of stopping the game it really annoys me. That said I like the people I play with so if they don't want to play that just sit around and talk that is fine too.

Luckily for me the group usaully wants to play we talk before the game and sometimes after. Sure we crack jokes during the game but the focus is on the game.

What I found amusing from reading this thread is the snide comments from both sides as to who is right or wrong. The serious gamers are uptight and the party guys are dillitantes.

The solution is really simple play with people who have your tastes as for the problem of the DM who started this thread he should talk to his players and see how they feel. Maybe some of the players feel the same way he does but are getting dragged into the chit chat. As hard as this is to do the DM either needs to change his style or find a group whose style of play is more like his.

 

[Corinth]

For those of us who a) are grownups, b) have plenty of real-world responsibilities and commitments, and c) maybe don't all live in the same city but an average of 200km apart, that's such a realistic suggestion I can't thank you enough! Wow, you've solved our entire problem of getting people who live in four different cities with busy schedules a better way to get together. You should sell this stuff, cause it's pure gold, man! Geez, it takes us three weeks on average to schedule a mutually-workable game session, and all this time we should have just been arranging to get together more often! Yeah!

And you can't take some of that time that you spend scheduling your play sessions to do that socializing that you insist upon doing when you get together for one of your hard-to-schedule sessions? You've got the guys on the phone; talk about the stuff then. That's what I'm getting at.

Damn, do you do project managament and gantt charts in your spare time for amusement, or do you just balance your checkbook for the 17th time that day? Maybe when you get done doing your cost-benefit analysis of buying the 1-ply vs. the 2-ply toilet paper you'll see that the getting together is the primary value of a D&D session for some people, not the gameplay itself which is really just a fun excuse.

The gameplay is the only reason to play any game. If you're not there to play, then you're wasting your time and everyone else's as well. If you want to socialize, then cancel the game and put together a BBQ or a guy's night out or something else instead. You'll get what you're after--time well-spent with your pals--and you'll not waste either time or money on something that you're not really interested in doing.

Look, run and play your game however you like, but don't make any silly declarations about how we should play ours. This "you're there to play, don't make any excuses" bull-hooey sounds like the strident declarations of a twelve year-old.

More like the hardened experience of a 20 yr. veteran hobbyist with time demands of his own, and the leader of a crew of adult gamers--all of them professionals--that understand this issue all too well. We have wives, husbands, careers, religious and civic obligations; our time is at a premium, and we value it highly for we know that it is a resource that is in short supply. Therefore we understand that it's downright retarded to make time to do a thing, then turn around and waste that valueable time when the appointment comes up; we're all about work when at work, we're all about socializing at social functions and we're all about playing the game when we're gaming. We have a decreasing tolerance for time-wasting habits--usually formed during adolescance or in college, and carried over thereafter--as we get older. We can't understand why others like us--such as yourself--would be so stupid as to engage in such counter-productive behaviors, unless you're not actually there to do what you say you're there to do.

This is why I'm telling you to stop with the wasting gaming time and just spend that time socializing without the conceit of playing a game when that's obvious by your behavior that this is not at all what you're there to do. You're cheating yourself, your friends and anyone else with rightful claims on your time by saying one thing and doing another. Come back to the table when you're actually there to play the game. Until then, do something else.

 

[WizarDru]

The gameplay is the only reason to play any game.

Las Vegas is holding for you on line 6.

Your opinion might sound more reasonable, were it not couched in a 'stop playing, if you don't play the right way' sentiment. One player might ask why you were wasting time talking to NPCs, when you need to move to the next combat. Another player might ask why you're just playing all these tactical situations, and not worrying about non-combat based social interractions. Both are correct, in the context of some games. Some games are intense and focused...others are not. There are lots of us 20+ year veterans here with full-time careers, children, spouses, medical problems and obligations all over the board...and we find D&D to be a wonderful steam-blower, allowing friends to get together and play, socialize and have fun. You may be referring to only the most extreme examples, but you come off as condeming any idle chat at the table as some form of code-violation that results in the theft of your good time. Which may be accurate for you...but it's not for everyone.

Aluvial, another option is to REMOVE THE TABLE ENTIRELY. Get a card table, if a battle map is needed, and move them to another locale where they need to sit differently, such as a set of couches, basement with bar stools, picnic tables on the deck, or what have you.

 

[Pbartender]

I like the "Call" system. Is it really effective? I think that it could potentially work, at least 5 of the players are in my game to play (and have fun) and they may enjoy "calling" out a fellow and getting the "chatter-boxes" to eat their words a little.

I haven't really tried it, myself. But if it doesn't cut the chatter, it will certainly liven up the action in-game, eh?

Seating assignments are not a half-bad idea. We've done that on occasion. Though, it only really a temporary fix, until your chatters grow comfortable with their new surroundings.

And I hadn't realized you had 8(!) players in your game. That's a lot to handle at once. I my experience, it's hard to keep that many PCs involved in the game consistantly and constantly. With the in-game work dibided amongst so many, they find themselves getting bored from not having enough to keep busy with. Hence, the chatter to fill the time until there is some that THEIR character can do. Personally, I like playing with 4 or 5 players. Much more than that is just too unweildy. I'd seriously consider splitting the gaming group.

 

[Aluvial]

Guys, again I appreciate the ideas. The game is on Wednesday night and after the session I'll get back here and let you know what was agreed upon by all.

If all fails I can look into the ball-gags...

Aluvial

 

[Rel]

I had one more thing to add after doing some gaming this weekend.

The group that met this weekend is my "pickup game" comprised of a fairly large group and we are running through RttToEE and meeting about once a month. In many ways, this is a recipe for disaster, but we seem to be handling it ok so far.

This game is set up in such a manner that when I've got a free weekend to play and there's an indication that several of the players do too, I send out an e-mail to the lot of them and whoever can make it comes and whoever can't doesn't. If every single one of them came, I'd have 9 players. So far, the most I've had is 7. Saturday was one of those times.

The way that this relates to your situation is that it is often a pretty large group that I'm dealing with and the fact is that it is almost impossible to keep everyone in the game at any given time. When not in combat, they sometimes split up (though they keep it to a minimum) for social interactions, investigation and purchasing needed equipment. When they are in combat, it is frequent that a party member is unconscious or incapacitated in some other manner (Hold Person or victims of a Bead of Force are two that have kept folks out of the combat for a goodly number of rounds). It just happens.

When it does happen, those people tend to focus on the combat for a few minutes but when it appears that they aren't going to be back in the action for a while, they tend to start chatting. I don't blame them and as long as they keep it fairly quiet, I've got no problem with this. But I think my tolerance for this situation would be much lower if it was a regular occurance in my weekly game.

The group I game with on a weekly basis is just 4 members so we are running a party of 3. If a party member is put unconscious or the victim of Hold Person, our lives are probably in great danger if we don't get that third of the party back in the fight very quickly so we tend to put our attention on it in a hurry. More often than not, nobody is out of the fight for very long.

I guess the point of all of this is that the spotlight is simply not big enough for 8 people in most cases. When people are not the focus of the game, it takes a lot of effort for them to maintain interest in those that are the focus for more than a few minutes. So I would posit that even if every member of your group is "there to play" and not merely for a social outlet, it would still be tough to stamp out the chatting simply because not all 8 of them are going to be directly involved in the game at any given time.

I hope that sort of made sense.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

A lot of our table talk fell away when we switched from weekly games to bi-weekly games. When it isn't a weekly occurance, my players spend a lot more time waiting for the game, and so are much more ready to play. As far as table talk goes, we hit the local gas station to pick up snacks, talk, and then when we reach the table, we're usually ready to go. Talk still occurrs during the game, but as there's only two criteria that serve for getting called out on it. The first is if it's loud enough to be a distraction to myself, or the people who are active. Then I turn to the people talking and ask them to keep it down. The second is when someone active currently begins talking on a tangent. That I stomp down on. I don't mind joking out of character, but when it's in the middle of a dialog with an NPC or in an intense situation I put my foot down. The form that takes varies. If someone isn't paying attention during combat, or is talking about a movie, I give them a short time to finish. If finishing takes too long for me, I hold up a hand and say "Five seconds." And begin counting down. If they don't have an action by 0 it's the next person's turn. If the person in the scene makes a comment, or mock declares an action, I'll sometimes take it as a real action. I'm fairly inconsistant about this, which serves to keep my players from trying to predict this sort of thing, or turn the game into a sort of farce of itself.

With a group that large, you will have to make a few more consesions though. People who aren't in the spot may need something to do, and there may be large spans of time where someone isn't doing anything. In either of those cases, it may be advisible to simply set a few protocols for talking (lower voices, or drink breaks, or bathroom breaks every half hour) and see if that helps.

 

[Pelenor]

My group's solution to this problem is called the tanget bell. Basically when the conversation gets to far afield or when someone gets tired of it someone rings the tanget bell. It's seems to work pretty well for us. The off topic disucssion still happen but they don't get ridiculous. But we don't have the problem with off topic conversation being the most hideous crime to man reaction either.: