How do you DM's deal with "Dogpile on the evil wizard" tactics?
- Thread starter Felon
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Gunslinger
First Post
My first suggestion would be improved invisibility, with or without fly or levitate (possible in combination with silent spell). If the players can't see the wizard, they can't grapple him or disrupt him.
Or give your wizards high con, max concentration ranks, and combat casting so that if the players do attempt to disrupt him, they'll get a nasty surprise.
Or give your wizards high con, max concentration ranks, and combat casting so that if the players do attempt to disrupt him, they'll get a nasty surprise.
RangerWickett
Legend
All the bad guys, wizards and bodyguards, wear standard-issue black cloaks. The wizard holds a sword. You can't tell who's the wizard, or if any of them are.
The real wizard, of course, is the wildshaped druid in the form of a lizard in the corner, with natural spell.
The real wizard, of course, is the wildshaped druid in the form of a lizard in the corner, with natural spell.
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
*checks his R&R sources...*
Okay to really screw with players, use Belsameth's Blessing.
Shadow Smash, to turn those pesky weapons to shadow.
Talen's Confounding Battlefield (to make the player's think they are something else)
Amensia (hey they can't fight if they can't remember! )
Oh yeah Neith's Viligant Aura too.
Plus Blade turn.
Howse that for some spell choices?
Okay to really screw with players, use Belsameth's Blessing.
Shadow Smash, to turn those pesky weapons to shadow.
Talen's Confounding Battlefield (to make the player's think they are something else)
Amensia (hey they can't fight if they can't remember!
)Oh yeah Neith's Viligant Aura too.
Plus Blade turn.
Howse that for some spell choices?
kamosa
Explorer
The Bluff check is your friend.
GM: He's making a motion to cast a spell.
Player: I disrupt him.
GM: Ok, now he is really casting the spell.
OR
GM: You see a man in robes getting ready to cast a spell.
Player: I run over and grapple him.
GM: Ok the monk in robes turns and kicks your.....
Deception is your friend.
Also, spells that make it hard to see the wizard can prevent the party from distrupting the wizard. Spells like darkness and obscuring mist can make nice sight barriers for the wizard.
If the players are being real dorks about the tactic, you can turn the tables on them by having more than one mage and having the secondary mages doink the disrupters while the main mage kicks it at the party.
Monks also make good disrupters. Have them tumble thru combat and engauge the casters in hand to hand before the BBEG mage reveals himself.
Mages and beholders working together is always just a bit nasty...
There are lots of ways to disrupt this tactic. The real question is why would you want to distrupt this tactic. I mean seriously. The party has an active way of combating a powerful foe. Why rain on their parade and take away their victory. It isn't you vs them in a battle for cleverness. If you have to do back flips to make a mage survive, why not just run something else that doesn't have the mages downfalls but is still nasty (like a dragon or fiend).
As the GM you can always win. That doesn't mean it's fun for the players.
GM: He's making a motion to cast a spell.
Player: I disrupt him.
GM: Ok, now he is really casting the spell.
OR
GM: You see a man in robes getting ready to cast a spell.
Player: I run over and grapple him.
GM: Ok the monk in robes turns and kicks your.....
Deception is your friend.
Also, spells that make it hard to see the wizard can prevent the party from distrupting the wizard. Spells like darkness and obscuring mist can make nice sight barriers for the wizard.
If the players are being real dorks about the tactic, you can turn the tables on them by having more than one mage and having the secondary mages doink the disrupters while the main mage kicks it at the party.
Monks also make good disrupters. Have them tumble thru combat and engauge the casters in hand to hand before the BBEG mage reveals himself.
Mages and beholders working together is always just a bit nasty...
There are lots of ways to disrupt this tactic. The real question is why would you want to distrupt this tactic. I mean seriously. The party has an active way of combating a powerful foe. Why rain on their parade and take away their victory. It isn't you vs them in a battle for cleverness. If you have to do back flips to make a mage survive, why not just run something else that doesn't have the mages downfalls but is still nasty (like a dragon or fiend).
As the GM you can always win. That doesn't mean it's fun for the players.
jerichothebard
First Post
Mirror Image. Which wizard is which?
Add in a Dimension Door, and then, when they do figure it out, you move to another section of the map and take your remaining images with you, thus muddying the waters again. Mirror image says you can rearrange at will while moving, so even add in expeditious retreat, or for added punch, haste.
Toss in a blur or a displacement, which would, at least in my opinion, apply equally to the illusionary you's, and wow - would it ever be hard to grapple you.
Plus, they are all low-ish level, so you won't waste your big damaging spell slots on them.
Add in a Dimension Door, and then, when they do figure it out, you move to another section of the map and take your remaining images with you, thus muddying the waters again. Mirror image says you can rearrange at will while moving, so even add in expeditious retreat, or for added punch, haste.
Toss in a blur or a displacement, which would, at least in my opinion, apply equally to the illusionary you's, and wow - would it ever be hard to grapple you.
Plus, they are all low-ish level, so you won't waste your big damaging spell slots on them.
RangerWickett
Legend
kamosa said:
Think of it like an arms race of fun. You create machine guns, they create tanks, you create airplanes, they get AA guns, you develop heavy bombers, they get rockets, then stealth fighters, etc. As long as the improvements are minor, people have fun with the back-and-forthiness of the game, where they keep getting challenged.
Just don't use the nukes. No one has fun then.
Mirror Image. If they see half a dozen wizards they might not want to fight them. Especially if all of them start casting Fireball at the same time =).
Generally speaking I love to use Illusions when the situation is turning bad. The characters get a Will save for Disbelief, but only if they suspect it is an illusion. If they don't then...they just believe what they see
.
Generally speaking I love to use Illusions when the situation is turning bad. The characters get a Will save for Disbelief, but only if they suspect it is an illusion. If they don't then...they just believe what they see
.kamosa said:
Right on… I have to say, learning from experience… This is the best advice any GM/DM can take. I honestly wish I had someone drill this home before I blew up my last D&D group.
Not every gamer takes well to a DM that they think is intentionally trying to screw them out of their victory… A good example is a wild twisting-plot mega adventure I had running over a year ago… The trouble with it was that I made it so ‘difficult’, and so twisted, that the players never felt like they where winning. I had hoped that the feel of being so overwhelmed for so long would translate into an amazingly awe inspiring victory at the climax. Unfortunately all I got was heart ache and accusations that I was ‘rigging’ the game… As a result the players began to try and outthink me, making proverbial MOUNTAINS out of molehills… The simplest of side treks, which would have taken 20-30 minutes before, began taking 2 hours as the players began meta-gaming every step they took! Sessions began to drag on and on, until eventually I couldn’t get everyone to show up for the game. Shortly after that, the group fell apart.
The lesson I took from it was that, as GM/DM, it was my responsibility to insure that the players always had their victory at the end of the session. Even if it’s a small one. Oh, and always make sure any side trek adds depth to the main plot, and does not unnecessarily distract the players, should it take longer then usual to complete. Because nothing sucks worse then the players forgetting ‘why’ they where even on a quest in the first place.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Mirror Image plus a bunch of minions polymorphed to look like the wizard (again monks are good for this). And if some of those minions are wizards with access to Mirror Image... Just make sure that you have a bunch of the same wizard figures, and number their bases.
The Auld Grump
The Auld Grump
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