D&D General How do you do smart chaotic evil?

[bsss]

Can somebody explain how your GM would pull it off?

A chessmaster never held back by others, unconcerned with those other self-imposed false constructs of "right and wrong", what matters is complete realization of the self, and everyone and everything else are just game pieces on the board. When not a step ahead, instead perennially able to twist any situation into their favor and continue play. Alliances, allies, nations, all are threats to the self to be manipulated until they tear each other apart and die, and only the self is left standing.

 

[TwoSix]

The scary thing for me is that smart evil groups tend to be much, much more effective than good groups.

Heroism is reactive; villainy is proactive.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think even smart CE characters are most often going to be loners. They’re unlikely to have allies of equal stature because their chaotic nature makes them difficult to have as allies.

At lower power levels, they may have superiors. But they’ll be hard to control, and as such, be on the edge of being jettisoned from whatever position they hold.

Powerful ones may have underlings who do their bidding.

A duo of smart CE types may be a fairly stable partnership…until their paths diverge.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

/snip

In other words? Something like Davros from Doctor Who, or perhaps Lex Luthor (especially the version in 2025's Superman). This kind of Chaotic Evil can be brilliant or stupid, physically powerful or reliant on skill and resources, an "ally" of convenience or a ruthless opponent, etc., etc. They just need some Purpose, some Worthy Goal, so that they can say: "Utopia justifies the means." Because once you cross that line, you functionally are Chaotic Evil. You'll do ANYTHING to make your utopian goal a reality. You'll kill anyone, destroy anyone, ruin lives, lie, cheat, steal, whatever it takes.

I've been watching Invincible and the way the Viltrimites are depicted fits this perfectly. They believed that they must bring order to the universe, no matter what. In the face of that level of extremism, any action can be self-justified. A very good example of a Chaotic Evil society. The strongest rule because they are the strongest.

Saw Guerra (sp) from Star Wars also fits this bill.

Any "might makes right" or "the ends justify the means" morality is effectively chaotic evil.

 

[Maxperson]

Littlefinger wasn't Chaotic Evil. He was Lawful Evil.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

I think even smart CE characters are most often going to be loners. They’re unlikely to have allies of equal stature because their chaotic nature makes them difficult to have as allies.

At lower power levels, they may have superiors. But they’ll be hard to control, and as such, be on the edge of being jettisoned from whatever position they hold.

Powerful ones may have underlings who do their bidding.

A duo of smart CE types may be a fairly stable partnership…until their paths diverge.

Again, it depends on how they are evil. If you are members of an evil group - a gang for example, or some sort of social structure where the strongest direct those under them - then you can work together since your self interest coincides with the groups. So long as it's never more directly beneficial to you to stab your partners in the back than it is to work within the group, then it can be pretty stable.

Cults are probably the best example of this. Dragon magazine, back when it was in print, used to do the Demonomicon articles, detailing how the cults of various groups operated. Cults of Fraz-Urb'Luu for example, would often pose as beneficial groups, aiding the locals, carefully selecting specific victims to sacrifice to their demon lord. Most of the time, the cults would be really helpful in the area they were operating in.

I once ran a Greyhawk campaign where a cult of Baphomet had become the primary source of gunpowder (long story). Suddenly, everyone wanted Baphomet cultists around to supply them with weapons.

 

[Maxperson]

There really is no smart way to play Chaotic Evil in my opinion, because it's a Might Makes Right alignment. It's the Joker or Kurgan. Or the guy who will shoot you because you have boots that he wants and he can do it.

Once you introduce thought into the equation and the person doesn't do X, because he might get in trouble or because it would be smarter to do at night when you might not get caught, you have left Chaotic Evil and moved into Lawful or Neutral Evil.

 

[bsss]

Once you introduce thought into the equation and the person doesn't do X, because he might get in trouble or because it would be smarter to do at night when you might not get caught, you have left Chaotic Evil and moved into Lawful or Neutral Evil.

"Chaotic = ignores cause and effect" is an extremely shallow interpretation.

 

[Maxperson]

"Chaotic = ignores cause and effect" is an extremely shallow interpretation.

It's what the alignment has been from the outset. It's might makes right. The Joker or the Kurgan(from the Highlander) are perfect examples of Chaotic Evil. They aren't going to shy away from doing what they want when they want to do it.

Edit: Here is the 1e description.

"By promoting chaos and evil, those of this alignment hope to bring themselves to positions of power, glory, and prestige in a system ruled by individual caprice and their own whims."

That's might makes right.

 

[bsss]

"By promoting chaos and evil, those of this alignment hope to bring themselves to positions of power, glory, and prestige in a system ruled by individual caprice and their own whims."

That's might makes right.

Okay, but none of that precludes "introducing thought" or planning in one's self interest. A high-Int/Wis Chaotic still has a functioning brain.