D&D General How do you do smart chaotic evil?

[Stormonu]

Having recently watched the Discworld TV series, I'd put Trymon as an example of an intelligent Chaotic Evil individual.

Chao's "Strongest Rules ... until someone stronger comes along" doesn't circumscribe an individual bending the knee to someone that is stronger or curbing/hiding their activities - at least until they find a moment to safely usurp that individual or act openly without repercussions.

 

[AlViking]

It's what the alignment has been from the outset. It's might makes right. The Joker or the Kurgan(from the Highlander) are perfect examples of Chaotic Evil. They aren't going to shy away from doing what they want when they want to do it.

Edit: Here is the 1e description.

"By promoting chaos and evil, those of this alignment hope to bring themselves to positions of power, glory, and prestige in a system ruled by individual caprice and their own whims."

That's might makes right.

Might makes right is one thing, stupid is as stupid does is another. A CE may want to fight their way to the top but they'll also understand the consequences if they're unsuccessful. I don't believe in chaotic stupid.

Someone that is lawful may not kill someone because it's against the rules or they respect the position. That doesn't mean someone chaotic is going to kill someone without realizing they can't get away with it.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Might makes right is one thing, stupid is as stupid does is another. A CE may want to fight their way to the top but they'll also understand the consequences if they're unsuccessful. I don't believe in chaotic stupid.

Someone that is lawful may not kill someone because it's against the rules or they respect the position. That doesn't mean someone chaotic is going to kill someone without realizing they can't get away with it.

A stupid chaotic evil thinks might makes right means physical power. A smart chaotic evil understands might makes right refers to monopolies of violence imposing totalitarian standards of morality.

 

[liteberer]

Anton Chigurh and Tony Soprano are wildly disparate examples...

 

[AlViking]

A stupid chaotic evil thinks might makes right means physical power. A smart chaotic evil understands might makes right refers to monopolies of violence imposing totalitarian standards of morality.

There are stupid people of all alignments. CE may mean stupid or chaotic insane - but some people seem to think those are the only options. A stupid or insane berserker chaotic barbarian NPC can be interesting, it's just not the only interesting option.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Slightly off topic, but I simply cannot play Evil characters. I cannot even play Neutral. And not even just in TTRPGs, but also in solo play video games. I do not understand the desire to do so.

 

[AlViking]

Slightly off topic, but I simply cannot play Evil characters. I cannot even play Neutral. And not even just in TTRPGs, but also in solo play video games. I do not understand the desire to do so.

Same here. I don't even like to watch shows with evil protagonists. I watched The Godfather movies long ago but have no interest in watching the Sopranos and the Joker movies just aren't for me. When I do play a bad guy it's because I'm the DM.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

There really is no smart way to play Chaotic Evil in my opinion, because it's a Might Makes Right alignment. It's the Joker or Kurgan. Or the guy who will shoot you because you have boots that he wants and he can do it.

Once you introduce thought into the equation and the person doesn't do X, because he might get in trouble or because it would be smarter to do at night when you might not get caught, you have left Chaotic Evil and moved into Lawful or Neutral Evil.

That's not right. Just because something is CE, doesn't mean they are no longer capable of understanding consequences. Now, if I'm strong enough that doing whatever in the daytime doesn't matter and it's easier for me? Then sure, do it in the daylight. I'm probably going to take the easiest path to my goal. But, again, the evil cult that is gaslighting victims into thinking they are doing right, only to reveal at the last minute that they were doing evil all the way along? That's about as chaotic evil as it gets.

Being chaotic means the individual is number one. You don't care about others. That's where the evil part comes in. Leaving my minions to die while I get away? That's pretty chaotic evil. You have no real loyalty to anyone else and distrust anyone who proclaims loyalty to you. It's all about domination. The others aren't loyal to you because they believe in your cause. They are loyal to YOU personally. It's all about the cult of personality. The "cause" is just a tool for dominating others. It doesn't actually matter all that much. If it wasn't this "cause" it would just be something else. Whatever lets you dominate others to do what you want.

 

[Scott Christian]

The Joker

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Slightly off topic, but I simply cannot play Evil characters. I cannot even play Neutral. And not even just in TTRPGs, but also in solo play video games. I do not understand the desire to do so.

Having run a couple of evil campaigns, I find that there's a few common threads:

1. The freedom that comes with an evil group. Obviously, several solutions to problems become possible for an evil group. But, beyond that, the true "anti-hero", not just a somewhat dirty kind of hero like Wolverine or Batman, but a true anti-hero like Magneto or several Sword and Sorcery characters (Steven Erikson's Malazan series is chock-a-block with these, as is Glen Cook's The Black Company) can be compelling.

2. It's a real way to get out of the role play rut that I have. I'm like you, @Bill Zebub. I almost always play heroic characters. But, in a shorter campaign especially, diving into straight up evil can be fascinating. Like I said in the first part, the true anti-hero is a trope for a reason.