D&D General How do you do smart chaotic evil?

[Maxperson]

Keep in mind also that those definitions are trying to portray evil in the most negative light possible, in order to make evil characters less attractive to play.

I think you're a bit too hung up on "whims" with all this, at least in the immediate sense. A whim "I'm gonna overthrow the king and put myself on the throne!" might lead to years of - perhaps on-and-off - planning and buildup in order to make that whim reality.

That's not a whim. That's dedication to a cause, which is the opposite of whimsy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Pre-2e D&D didn't assume this so much. You might have been taking out the slavers in A-series for altruistic reasons, or because doing so promised lots of loot, or because they were competition with what you were doing yourselves.

It was 2e that (sadly) brought in the "PCs are expected to be heroes" vibe as a direct response to the Satanic panic of the day; while at the same time banning classes that might not be so heroic (e.g. Assassin). Stupid move then, stupid move now; and WotC has leaned into it big time.

When I ran some of the Slavers series a while back, one of the main PCs* actually had "Slaver" as her randomly-rolled secondary skill. This gave the party some extra insight into the slavers' operation but also meant it was entirely possible she'd talk the rest of the PCs into taking over the slaving operation, as this character hadn't entirely left her old profession behind...

* - her most famous quote, on the party subduing some bandits: "Stop taking prisoners, start taking inventory".

Theoretically you could level up fast being a slavery treating them as loot in 1E.

 

[Zardnaar]

Was Jack Sparrow insane? He was certainly CN. His choices are driven by freedom, survival, and whimsy rather than ideology or cruelty. Deadpool probably qualifies as does Ash from Army of Darkness. Elektra from the Daredevil and Elektra movie was unpredictable, independent, and morally fluid without being portrayed as insane. Her actions reflect a personal code rather than societal norms.

For that matter I know people in real life I would consider CN - they obey the law not because they respect it, they obey the law because they don't want to end up in jail. Because they aren't insane.

CN can also be those people who are very poorly organized and screw up a lot.

Not insane, not cruel just do there on thing. CE is cruel, good is kindness imho.

 

[Seramus]

Alignment is just your beliefs and moral compass not your personality traits or driver of your actions.

I am firmly in the camp that believes alignment is determined by third party powers. It is dictated by their standards, and your culture/upbringing has little to do with how these powers judge you. To be fair, these third party powers are controlled by the DM, and thus tend to be the social norms of the DM themselves. Hopefully they enjoy philosophy.

 

[Zardnaar]

CE The disorganized hot mess tgat types that you tend to avoid after a while. The ones you might like but wouldn't lend money to. Or trust to house sit. Not insane very different world view.

CE at best. Same thing but they have no regard for anyone or anything possibly even cruel. Might have one or two redeeming contradictory traits if nuanced. Eg might be CN with immediate family or best friend. At best. They might not be bloodthirsty as such but very little regard for anyone else. May be redeemable though ymmv.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I am firmly in the camp that believes alignment is determined by third party powers. It is dictated by their standards, and your culture/upbringing has little to do with how these powers judge you. To be fair, these third party powers are controlled by the DM, and thus tend to be the social norms of the DM themselves. Hopefully they enjoy philosophy.

yeah, 'alignment is relative to your beliefs' is very stupid in my view, like, no, just because you were raised in a village of assassins and bandits does not make mugging strangers lawful.

 

[Zardnaar]

yeah, 'alignment is relative to your beliefs' is very stupid in my view, like, no, just because you were raised in a village of assassins and bandits does not make mugging strangers lawful.

I could see mugging strangers who refused to pay tolls or transit fee being lawful in some cultures.
Mugging them for fun is chaotic and probably evil.

One game I play uses ethics. You have 3 points, ethics. You can also be fanatic and have two ethics. Cant be opposing ethics.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Libertarians are chaotic good.

Mod Note:

1) I’m going to say I personally disagree with this statement, but

2) this thread is spending a bit too much time lingering in RW politics.

So let’s ease away from that cliff.

 

[Lanefan]

Theoretically you could level up fast being a slavery treating them as loot in 1E.

Perhaps fortunate, then, that I don't give xp for treasure.