D&D 5E How do you handle a skill check if needed.

[coolAlias]

Oh that's hilarious. Except that I don't really want to be a dick to players, I'd be really tempted to actually do that.

Or:
PC: I roll Perception, 21
DM: You notice stuff.

Oops... I didn't mean "some things" literally. Hope that was clear.

 

[coolAlias]

I get that different people have different approaches. But several people seem to be insulted or at least unwilling to answer the poll. I kind of get it, so the question is how to phrase the poll.

I'll take a stab at rewording each of the existing poll options, in order:

• Players can declare an ability check at any time
• Players can declare an ability check provided they tell you what they are trying to accomplish
• Players declare what they are trying to accomplish and how they want to accomplish it; the DM adjudicates the result, asking for an ability check if needed
• As above, but the DM rewards players that come up with creative approaches by granting advantage, automatic success, better (or lesser in case of failure) consequences, etc.
• We're playing a different game entirely - honestly, this is the option that seems the most dismissive of dissenting opinions to me; I'd remove it from the poll.

I'm not sure how that first option would actually work in play. If the player declares a check without knowing what they are trying to accomplish, how can the DM set a DC or narrate the results?

 

[Ashrym]

Ok, how to you gm handle skill checks.

PC's initiate check by an action. Not all check or actions are initiated by PC's. Very often, checks are made by players in response to actions initiate by NPC's, which doesn't fall under any category given than I can tell.

 

[5ekyu]

I'll take a stab at rewording each of the existing poll options, in order:

• Players can declare an ability check at any time
• Players can declare an ability check provided they tell you what they are trying to accomplish
• Players declare what they are trying to accomplish and how they want to accomplish it; the DM adjudicates the result, asking for an ability check if needed
• As above, but the DM rewards players that come up with creative approaches by granting advantage, automatic success, better (or lesser in case of failure) consequences, etc.
• We're playing a different game entirely - honestly, this is the option that seems the most dismissive of dissenting opinions to me; I'd remove it from the poll.

I'm not sure how that first option would actually work in play. If the player declares a check without knowing what they are trying to accomplish, how can the DM set a DC or narrate the results?

I see the word "creative" as triggering.

I would suggest the more neutral "some" or "certain".

The reason is, "creative" implies novel, new, imaginative or any number of ways to imply "fun" when in fact what may often be used as the benchmark is "effective". Does the approach our plan make it more likely to succeed or less, the book pretty much uses this as part of its advantage and disadvantage suggedtions.

Crestive seems to lean into "rool of kewl" territory since it seems to leave efficiency and helpful at the curb for a more artistic judgement.

Or maybe both should get listed, in case there are GMs who dont give z hoot about " more likely" and are looking for "novel".

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Which edition are we talking about with this poll, @jasper?

 

[BookBarbarian]

I see the word "creative" as triggering.

I would suggest the more neutral "some" or "certain".

The reason is, "creative" implies novel, new, imaginative or any number of ways to imply "fun" when in fact what may often be used as the benchmark is "effective". Does the approach our plan make it more likely to succeed or less, the book pretty much uses this as part of its advantage and disadvantage suggedtions.

Crestive seems to lean into "rool of kewl" territory since it seems to leave efficiency and helpful at the curb for a more artistic judgement.

Or maybe both should get listed, in case there are GMs who dont give z hoot about " more likely" and are looking for "novel".

I might even phrase it:

• As above, but the DM can apply advantage, automatic success, better (or lesser in case of failure) consequences, etc if the DM thinks the approach warrants such modification to the check.

A bit wordy maybe?

 

[Charlaquin]

I get that different people have different approaches. But several people seem to be insulted or at least unwilling to answer the poll. I kind of get it, so the question is how to phrase the poll.

In part I'm asking because in the thread I started I considered including a poll but couldn't think of how to word things without some people getting their grundies in a bundle. Because I am honestly curious - I have never had a DM in any private or AL game that has an issue with either the DM or player calling for a skill check. Is it a regional thing? A board thing? Is it because a lot of AL judges started DMing in previous editions?

I think the key would be to engage with different play styles on their own terms. I don’t particularly feel a need to poll people on the subject, but if I were to try, I might go for:

1. Players are free to make ability checks whenever they like.
2. Players are free to ask to make an ability check at any time and the DM decides if it is appropriate.
3. Players cannot initiate ability checks. Players announce actions and the DM calls for a check when appropriate.
4. Ability checks are never called for. All actions are resolved narratively or by other means.

 

[coolAlias]

I see the word "creative" as triggering.

I would suggest the more neutral "some" or "certain".

The reason is, "creative" implies novel, new, imaginative or any number of ways to imply "fun" when in fact what may often be used as the benchmark is "effective". Does the approach our plan make it more likely to succeed or less, the book pretty much uses this as part of its advantage and disadvantage suggedtions.

Crestive seems to lean into "rool of kewl" territory since it seems to leave efficiency and helpful at the curb for a more artistic judgement.

Or maybe both should get listed, in case there are GMs who dont give z hoot about " more likely" and are looking for "novel".

Excellent point - by "creative" I meant to include both rule of cool and particularly likely to succeed.

This is also where the term "magic words" becomes meaningful, as well as being the source of some of its negative connotations. If you have a DM that is extra permissive / lenient if a player phrases what they want to do just right, that can make the game less fun for players that feel the DM essentially punishes them because they don't know the magic formula for success.

That's not to say a DM should never reward that behavior, but it's important to remain as fair and impartial as possible when adjudicating player actions.

 

[Harzel]

Add me to those to whom "magic words" sounds dismissive and snarky. I have no idea whether that was intended; I'm willing to believe it was not. But in addition to tone, "magic words" has IMO another problem as a description of "players declare actions; DM calls for check if she deems it necessary" - it connotes something constrained/specific, when in fact players declaring actions is just the opposite - very unconstrained. So in addition to the tone problem, it seems to me that "magic words" is just flat inaccurate.

Also, the question heading the poll is ill-phrased for what the poll seems, after subsequent explanations, to be asking. In particular, "if needed" sounds like the context for the question is that somehow it has already been decided that an ability check is in fact needed. In that case, my response would be, "The DM calls for a check." However, given what the poll actually seems to be after, I suggest rephrasing the question as, "When you are DMing, what triggers a player-rolled ability check?"

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I simply require that the players engage with the fiction.

Agreed.
To steal one of Dungeon World's Principles, "Begin and end with the fiction."

Also, as noted above, but I feel it needs repeating... There is no such thing as a "skill check" in D&D 5E.