How do you handle evil?

[Scruffy nerf herder]

No half measures.

The Punisher has interesting history and motivations, and he's kind of a perfect example of a fan favorite who is fun to watch AND unambiguously evil sometimes. Maybe some people think that's weird or a problem playing that kind of character but he's very stylish and interesting and fun.

It's fun to portray villains. Make of that what you will but it's still something we all can observe. The Punisher is an anti-hero done right. He wants to do good, on some core personal level, but his moral compass is so thoroughly compromised that he doesn't completely have a grip on reality any more. The things the government had him do as "one of the good guys" has done more than a little to develop this situation.

The war crimes aspect doesn't get mentioned enough. It's a classic, well trodden way of presenting someone who may be villainous but still capable of making you feel conflicted.

 

[payn]

The Punisher has interesting history and motivations, and he's kind of a perfect example of a fan favorite who is fun to watch AND unambiguously evil sometimes. Maybe some people think that's weird or a problem playing that kind of character but he's very stylish and interesting and fun.

It's fun to portray villains. Make of that what you will but it's still something we all can observe. The Punisher is an anti-hero done right. He wants to do good, on some core personal level, but his moral compass is so thoroughly compromised that he doesn't completely have a grip on reality any more. The things the government had him do as "one of the good guys" has done more than a little to develop this situation.

The war crimes aspect doesn't get mentioned enough. It's a classic, well trodden way of presenting someone who may be villainous but still capable of making you feel conflicted.

So, I know at some point evil and villain have been tossed around interchangeably and I dont see that as a necessity. However, the Punisher is a shining example of a evil type PC that I can picture. I mean, his primary conflict resolution method is murder. You cant argue he is not evil to me. However, he is reasonable and when he is forced to work with good folks, he shows restraint. There is room to exchange there between players and make a game work. Though, folks have to work together or it falls apart quickly.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

So, I know at some point evil and villain have been tossed around interchangeably and I dont see that as a necessity. However, the Punisher is a shining example of a evil type PC that I can picture. I mean, his primary conflict resolution method is murder. You cant argue he is not evil to me. However, he is reasonable and when he is forced to work with good folks, he shows restraint. There is room to exchange there between players and make a game work. Though, folks have to work together or it falls apart quickly.

Yes, all of that perfectly illustrates why a character such as the Punisher would make for an interesting and fun dynamic with a good party.

 

[payn]

Yes, all of that perfectly illustrates why a character such as the Punisher would make for an interesting and fun dynamic with a good party.

Some of my favorite comics is when Spidey and Punisher crossed paths. These were, of course, short lived as I dont know if it could be maintained long term. Good stories though for sure.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

Having read all of the responses and thought about them over the last couple of days, I'm curious to know how people respond to this kind of question:

About half of people answered that they're okay with their players choosing any alignment, and around half of people answered that they don't find evil very fun. My question for both of these groups (or anyone who interestingly chose both options), is do you mean this specifically in reference to D&D? Or TTRPGs in general? Have you played any RPGs that explicitly encourage an evil party, and if so, what did you think?

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

Some of my favorite comics is when Spidey and Punisher crossed paths. These were, of course, short lived as I dont know if it could be maintained long term. Good stories though for sure.

Given that, would you say that you think it doesn't make sense for an evil PC to not have an "expiration date" for their cooperation?

 

[payn]

Given that, would you say that you think it doesn't make sense for an evil PC to not have an "expiration date" for their cooperation?

Depends. A lot of the no evil PC stuff stems from legacy of pallys must be LG stuff. I mean thats a major clash between ideologies. A lot of folks also believe if they cant dick around the other PCs, they cant actually be evil. So, it really depends on the game. If teamwork is come and go and the players have room to operate independently, its usually fine. The more they have to work together the more they step on one another's toes.

 

[RuinousPowers]

The Punisher you’re used to seeing routinely murdered helpless people. Stiltman being a good example. Stiltman lay helpless on the ground when Frank just slowly and casually pulls his pistol and shoots him a few times in the head.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for a guy who seemed to make his living in attempting to assassinate district attorneys? There was a fight, Stilt-Man had his powered armor, and he lost.

Is Conan evil? Is Gimli evil to offer to "ease the passing" of a mortally wounded orc in exchange for information? Is Captain Jack Sparrow evil? Are mercenaries an inherently evil profession? To me, generally speaking, no. To show mercy on the battlefield is an example of good, but not showing mercy to an armed foe who had been fighting you isn't evil to me. But, as I already said in my OP, I have a larger view of neutral than most, and I reserve evil to represent heinous actions.

 

[MGibster]

Am I supposed to feel sorry for a guy who seemed to make his living in attempting to assassinate district attorneys? There was a fight, Stilt-Man had his powered armor, and he lost.

Maybe I saw a different comic than you did. In the one I saw, Punisher blew Stilt-Man's legs off with an antitank rocket and then gunned him down after he was helpless and had surrendered. That's murder.

Is Conan evil? Is Gimli evil to offer to "ease the passing" of a mortally wounded orc in exchange for information? Is Captain Jack Sparrow evil? Are mercenaries an inherently evil profession? To me, generally speaking, no. To show mercy on the battlefield is an example of good, but not showing mercy to an armed foe who had been fighting you isn't evil to me. But, as I already said in my OP, I have a larger view of neutral than most, and I reserve evil to represent heinous actions.

You do realize that when a soldier kills a foe after he's surrendered it's actually a war crime, right?

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

Maybe I saw a different comic than you did. In the one I saw, Punisher blew Stilt-Man's legs off with an antitank rocket and then gunned him down after he was helpless and had surrendered. That's murder.

View attachment 152587


You do realize that when a soldier kills a foe after he's surrendered it's actually a war crime, right?

Heh, Frank Castle's pithy response there made me laugh.