How do you handle undead (Advice wanted)

[Tauric]

Disturbed (as a DM) of the many corpses either thrown into the woods/river or buried in a shallow mass grave, I was looking for a way to have such mistreated souls return as undead.

It would work something like this:

If a person dies and is not given the proper rite either just prior to dying (i.e. extreme unction) or at burial, then that person has a 5% chance of returning as undead. If the person died by violence then the chance increases to 10%. Determining the proper procedure (for clerics of a different religion) is a Knowledge: Religion check of DC 15.

I may add modifiers to the DC depending on how different the religion is. In my world (a kind of b@$tardized Greyhawk), a cleric of Pelor would probably know the burial rites of a follower of St. Cuthbert, but perhaps not one of Al’Ackbar.

The type of undead would probably be determined by circumstances of death.

The other methods for creating undead (the spells) would function as normal.

Pleas let me know if this seems reasonable to most people.

I thank in advance all who reply.

Tauric

 

[Mr Fidgit]

your idea sounds fine, except:

Determining the proper procedure (for clerics of a different religion) is a Knowledge: Religion check of DC 15. [/QUOTE

how is a cleric going to know someone's religon? does everyone wear a holy symbol? and does everyone in the world have to worship a god (in FR, it's a given), or can there be atheists?

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

Boy I sure hope I don't follow Hextor based on these figures Is it reasonable? Sure for your world. The sheer number of undead would be hard to stop what with he multiplication and all. And I'm not sure the type should figure in unless it was something truly horribly(like ritual sacrifice). Otherwise just zombies I suppose. There is a thing from Len Lafkota floating around the web on his take of the Undead. I like it and so I use it. He goes the opposite way you do to make undead rare but perhaps more powerful. Anyway, you have a neat idea and try it out ot see if it balances in your campaign. In mine I just see the world of my Greyhawk slowly sinking into a cesspool of death. Not such a bad way to go either

 

[Tauric]

To Mr. Fidgit: One of my friends (an atheist in the real world) brought up the question about everyone having a god the other day. In cases where the god is not known, or if the person has no god, then a ritual and prayer to Wee Jas is sufficient to consign the spirit to the afterlife.

To Valmur_Dwur: After I looked at the numbers I thought they might have been a little high. Maybe 1% if a natural death and 5% if by violence. As for the type, I was thinking that the persons profession and manner of death might have some effect but I am not sure what, so I might just go with just zombies, or low powered ghosts.


Thank you for replying.

Tauric

 

[Mr Fidgit]

then the only thing that should concern you are the numbers. (unless, of course, you're turning the world into a stinking cesspool of death, like Valmur is )

just on percentage alone, how many undead would be created by the average adventuring party in a lifetime? dozens? scores? and how about sites where major battles have occured? i don't think that clerics from either side of a war would stick around a battlefield to bury thousands or tens-of-thousands of dead. (unless a major last rites could be given, and no burial required)

(there's a place in FR called the Battle of Bones where thousands died in a major elf, dwarf, human vs. orcs and goblins battle. "300 years later, the site of the great battle is still a cursed and haunted land, covered with bones and remnants of the battle that are nearly a foot deep and sometimes pile into great drifts. The sixty square miles covered by the battle are horrid hunting grounds for undead...")

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

That seems like an interesting idea. My take on it is this:

It doesn't really matter who the god of the dead people is. The appropriate prayer to Wee Jas (or Nerull, but for some reason most PCs prefer to deal with Wee Jas or Pholtus (only Pholtans do this though) will keep the dead from arising again.

However, the question of what kind of undead should arise is an interesting one. My suggestions:

Ghouls--anyone who has partaken of human or demi-human flesh (perhaps even without knowing it--this could lead clerics of evil deities to try tricking people into eating human flesh which would have a very classical, Senecan feel to it).

Wights--Those consumed by lust, violence, and base evils of a physical nature may return as wights.

Wraiths--Those consumed by pride, hatred, and evils of a mental nature may return as wraiths.

Ghosts--Those who died with important work left undone or (especially) vows unfullfilled may remain on the site of their death as ghosts (not necessarily evil).

Haunts--(this would have to be an unique monster--probably based upon a zombie or a shadow but tied to a particular physical site and generally continuing the battle in which it died in life)

 

[Tauric]

To Mr. Fidgit: To avoid having thousands of undead wandering about after wars, the cleric would ahead of time give the last rites to the participants (which is what I understand the Catholic church did in the Middle Ages).

While my concerns about undead are real (and have been since my first paladin), my desire to put a system such as this into effect was twofold. One, to ease my own mind about what makes my world tick, and two, to encourage someone to play a cleric in my group.

To the Elder-Basilisk: I like your ideas. I think I will steal them, if you don't mind.

Thank you.

Tauric.

 

[Destil]

Accualy, I think this is a great idea. In such a world there would be entire chapters or even entire religions devoted to giving the dead their proper final rights. They would follow armys, most likely, and wander across the battle-field concrating graves. Every small town would have at least one priest of this religion, who would most likely have normal functions as a clerk of the local grave-yard. They would very likely even wander the wildneress, seeking to destroy any undead who have awakened. All of this attention to proper burial rights would most likely lead to fairly rigid customs on battle-field ettiquete amoung civilized lands: not allowing the other side to properly tend to their dead would be quite looked down upon... like the outrage over Achilies dragging Hector around Troy. Truely evil lands, ruled by powerfull necromancers with plentyfull access to rebuking and control undead, would make it prodecure to do the oppisite, keeping the bodys so that they would raise as undead.

If undeath was some somehow a painfull or hidious expirence for the person who had died, nearly everyone would, in fact, wear holy symbols at all times, so that anyone who finds their body would know the proper procedures.

 

[Staffan]

Determining the proper procedure (for clerics of a different religion) is a Knowledge: Religion check of DC 15.

The way I see it, in a polytheistic setting (like Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms), people don't follow one god exclusively. Sure, a Faerûnean wizard probably worships Mystra or Azuth primarily, but he'd pray to other gods as the situation requires - a small sacrifice to Umberlee before embarking on a voyage, a prayer to Sune before trying to woo a lady, visiting the shrine of Oghma before researching something, and asking Kelemvor to safely guide a fallen comrade.