How do you handle your clerics?

[Psion]

In real life, many priests can be found preaching sermons every week, handing out food at soup kitchens, counselling convicts and the homeless, peforming marriages, teaching children, performing baptisms, hearing confessions, and everything in between. That doesn't leave a lot of time for adventuring, and it can become awkward if a PC has to keep running back to a specific temple every week to give a sermon, or some other priestly duty gets in the way.

How do you as a DM handle these things?

First, I think it's an error to assume that, as a default, clerics or faith should strongly resemble modern Christian churches (which many of these assumptions seem to be based on.) Yes, there is some modern inspiration to the cleric, but the polytheistic baseline is fundamentally different.

I find the cleric to be maddeningly inflexible. It's basically a WARPRIEST (I chortle when I see supposed warpriest variant classes.) It doesn't model the different character that priests of different deities should have. I would prefer a one-size-fits all priest class, but there's not one out there I know of, and I haven't had the wherewithal to design one myself. So what I do in the interim is allow different faiths to use different divine caster classes to represent their clergy:

• cleric
• druid
• priest (from AEG good, similar to cloistered cleric)
• priest (from Hamunaptra)
• healer (minis handbook)
• Shaman (green ronin shaman handbook)
• Avatar (Green Ronin Avatar Handbook)
• Yogi (Complete Guide to Rakshasa/Years Best d20)
• Favored Soul (minis handbook/complete divine)

Second, I don't assume that typical preaching clergy are represented by PC classes. Single classed clerics (and similar PC classes) don't necessarily make up the bulk of NPC clergy. Many multiclass with the likes of expert, aristocrat, or even commoner. PCs are heroes with the pinnacle of divine power, and are instruments of divine will.

How do your clerics get along with other party members who may not belong to the faith? Are they allowed to travel in the company of such 'heretics'? Should they be required to convert before they can be healed?

No. The "heretic" division is usually defined by the good/evil division or a different faith/pantheon entirely. Again, as in many real world pantheistic or polytheistic belief systems, deities often don't represent a singular distinct "faith". Most followers of the same pantheon share many of the same founding philosophies. Most non-divine casters DON'T select a single patron deity to the exclusion of all others. All deities are worthy of respect and offerings, even the evil ones (if only to appease their wrath, not advance their cause). Even some priests, while careful never to accord another deity more respect than their patron, show respect to deities that aren't rivals to their own.

 

[shilsen]

Well, what follows is of course opinion, bear in mind that Clerics != Priests in all cases, or at least, possessed of priestly duties. IMO They're sufficiently martial enough that most adventuring Clerics are probably drawn from a sect/branch within the church that functions in a more templar-like fashion. While an adventuring Cleric could still be wandering the land proselytizing and spreading the faith, its just as feasible to think that they advance the goals of the faith in another fashion (ie. Smiting evil, performing heroic deeds, or even acquiring wealth for the church's coffers)

Personally, I like how Eberron handles it. Therein, you have a large percentage of the clergy (particularly those handling day to day matters, such as leading worship) as Experts, rather than Clerics, who represent a rarer, better trained and gifted individual within the faith. Nothing's stopping these Clerics from fulfilling the duty of a normal priest, but I find its a good way to delineate the difference between a normal priest and a Cleric while at the same time placing emphasis on the mystique and wonder of divine magic.

YMMV, of course. Its ultimately a DM's own thing. I just don't think most players of religious characters want to be burdened with the frivolities and minutiae of a religious organization.

What he said.

 

[Aries_Omega]

2nd that

I have to agree that Eberron gives a good explanation. It works even better in my game since Bards, Paladins and Rangers are prestige classes.

 

[billd91]

Clerics are not parish priests, administrators, et cetera. Those roles are filled by adepts and experts. Eberron does it this way and so do I in my own settings.

I usually run my churches as having 2 semi-distinct hierarchies: the political one involving church administration and seats. Most of these priests have a mix of clerical levels and expert levels (the higher up in the hierarchy, the more likely to have more expert levels). They take skills involving administration and doctrine.
The adventuring priests are generally outside the administrative hierarchy and have little official authority other than their street cred.

 

[Darklone]

Soo... just assume I'd remove the cleric and use the cloistered cleric for my setting.

Which skills should the cloi cleric get to be a real medieval parish priest? Profession, Craft, some bookkeeping, Handle Animal?

 

[Shallown]

First of all all the clerics of my gods have individual spell list drawn from the PHB and Spell compendium. So that makes different religions different.

Second in campaign history (even if the players are not yet aware) there is a reason for turning undead. If given time I might develop a differing set of abilities to replace that dependent on the gods but not a priority.

Third the priest of a established temple (not all gods have temples or are widely worshiped which has little to no impact on their powers for other reasons.) are not PC PHB clerics but more an adept/expert with a specific spell list as listed above. They are NPC's for the most part with of course a real Cleric mixed in when needed. My focus when it comes to NPC's in religion seldom concerns mechanics. They can do whatever I need them to do and I'll make the mechanics explain it later. Once PC's reach about 6-7th they are more powerful caster's then most church members they will encounter except in the largest cities.

PC clerics are considered divinely touched and have the 'spark' that makes them special. Much like christian saints versus just priest cardinals and such. though each religions Dogma may impact exactly how they are treated or veiwed. I try to inbdividualize my churchs a great deal.

As far as the PC cleric preaching converting others and administering the churchs Dogma that is done more by thier actions while adventuring than in day to day routines. Though they are responsible for their own prayers and devotions they are not there to convert others.

My religion is based around the concept that what you think and do is how the gods get power. This is why Paladins have strict codes of ethics. If they lie even a small white lie they give power to the God that governs lying. Same for priest etc. They may do it if needed but avoided whenever possible. So evil religions don't need temples or direct worshipers (though they have them) they just need a world of people lieing, commiting treachery or out right murder to gain power.

This is also why making converts is not as big an issue. though the faithful can use converts for by worship in prayer, devotions and actions they give thier God more power/influence.

This also allows me as a GM a lot of latitude when Developing personalities for my priest and faithful.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Tonguez]

I too go with the Cleric class = Templar and are a very minor part of the Church hierarchy. Most clergy are Experts with some being Adepts and even Bards.

Paladins imho are commissioned to seek out evil and eradicate it whereas Clerics are specifically 'Knights of the Temple' special Orders trained to defend the Church from marauding monsters and the unholy enemies of the faith.

Some adventuring Clerics have been temporarily released from their Orders so as to test themselves in the World and stand forth for their faith. Others have not found a place within the Church hierarchy and so have set out alone

One of my favourite Cleric characters was a Half-giant who was having a crisis of faith for although he believed strongly in his own patron (a minor god of Justice and leader of the Host of Heaven) he was not certain about the Pantheon to which he belonged

This giant would stride into battle singing battle hymns and announcing himself as the Iron Fist of Justice following the Host of Heaven to see justice done on in the World. Each morning he would sing a hymn to his god and preach to the other PCs about their duty to uphold Truth, Order and Justice for the glory of the heavens so that no blemish would be upon their hearts when they faced their final judgement. Yet when faced with the atrocities done by the Faith against his own giant ancestors he could not condone what had been done

He eventually joined a heretical sect and caused a schism.

 

[molonel]

In real life, many priests can be found preaching sermons every week, handing out food at soup kitchens, counselling convicts and the homeless, peforming marriages, teaching children, performing baptisms, hearing confessions, and everything in between. That doesn't leave a lot of time for adventuring, and it can become awkward if a PC has to keep running back to a specific temple every week to give a sermon, or some other priestly duty gets in the way.

What you've described is a perish priest, or a pastor. It does not describe a cloistered monk, or an army chaplain, or a traveling scholar, or a templar, or an inquisitor, or any other of a number of historical roles played out in churches and religions of all kinds.

How do you as a DM handle these things? Or, if you're a player, how does your DM handle it? Do your world's churches have specific adventuring arms of the faith that gather resources, intelligence and maybe converts for it, and perform specific tasks when required, in exchange for not having to handle the healings, sermons, exorcisms, and everything else in between? Do you require your PC clerics to do these things, or are you as a player or DM not keen on doing those things? Or do you enjoy actively roleplaying these types of experiences, disputes within the church hierarchy, etc.?

We require them only when it serves the story, or moves the adventure forward. In one of my longest running campaigns, we did build a temple, but when our party cleric was traveling, the day-to-day business was handled by subordinates. Ultimately, the point of the game is to have fun. We're not playing Campus Crusade for Christ: The Roleplaying Adventure, or Perish Priest: The Book Keeping.

How do your clerics get along with other party members who may not belong to the faith? Are they allowed to travel in the company of such 'heretics'? Should they be required to convert before they can be healed? Are your players actively required to seek converts, or could they be needed for specific blessings, marriages, confessions, or exorcisms?

I've seen people do all of those things, but the fact is, doing them over and over and over again gets tedious. It's fun for a little while, but it stops being fun when a party member dies because you were being a sanctimonious prick.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I agree with all the others who have said that cleric != priest. I've always understood clerics to be a special category of warrior/adventuring priest, similar to Templars. Most of the priests in my campaign world are not clerics at all.

(As an aside, this is also how I explain the cleric class restriction in 1E -- it's not that a given race doesn't have priests or worship-leaders, but that they don't have clerics. It's also why I am annoyed when the typical hamlet or village in a module invariably has a 3rd level cleric as the pastor of the local chapel or church -- that doesn't fit with my understanding of the class, in most cases. Nitpicky, I know.)

 

[freyar]

I've mostly thought about FR, in which there are a lot of pretty actively involved gods. So I think of the churches as sending out their young priests for "seasoning," which involves adventuring, at least in the more martial religions. These might not be clerics; someone pointed out that nature deities would have druids, etc. But the larger population centers for most churches would be led by a cleric. Smaller congregations would probably have adepts, experts, or even commoners (I haven't really thought about non-core PC classes).

As far as distinguishing clerics from paladins, I do think that clerics have more of an obligation to heal and "minister" to others of the faith. Adventuring is sort of a temporary state (which might go on to epic levels) for a cleric, though they are eventually expected to settle down in a church. Paladins are the dedicated holy warriors, though lines can blur in some more martial religions (see the Triad, for example). One question that's bothered me a bit, though; there's not really an equivalent to the paladin for the gods who aren't within a step of LG. (I suppose a nature-oriented god might have rangers in that role, but what about evil gods? AFAIK, you need PrCs for them.)