D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[Yaarel]

We use words, because we're human.

Yes, and repeating words is what makes an unintended appearance of racism possible.

So if I describe a tribe of whatever in the game, people know what that means.

It depends on which races have "tribes". Are they "primitives"? While the "advanced" "civilized" races dont have tribes?

What it doesn't have is any connection whatsoever to any real world tribe.

The word "tribe" has only a reallife meaning.

Period. End of story.

Period.

No connection to native american tribes. No connection to tribes in the Amazon. None. You don't get to invent connections that don't exist.

Just as a "chemical smell" test, I went thru the 2014 Monster Manual to see where it uses the term "tribe"

While the 5e use of the term "tribe" (and "shaman") isnt as awful as in previous editions, 5e is only slightly better. The 5e designers preserve tropes that use the term "tribe" in pejorative contexts that are "primitive" and lacking civilization, or else in contexts that are horrifically depraved and Evil.

The use of the term suggests the designers have little positive sense of what a "tribe" might be, or why reallife humans might want to have a culture that is one.



"TRIBE" in the 5e Monster Manual
• goblin and hobgoblin (entry: bugbear)
• goblin (goblin monarch "glorified boss" over "lairs")
• hobgoblin ("tribal bands")
• centaur ("roam wilderness far from laws", "conflict when encounter settlements", "a centaur that cant keep pace with the rest of its tribe is left behind")
• desert nomadic tribes (entry: blue dragon)
• Chaotic Evil Humanoids (entry: red dragon)
• orc (entry: ettin)
• orc ("tribes like plagues", "bloodlust", "savaging", "roving bands", "no innovation", "the tribe en masse carve a bloody path", "sate their appetites", "rampaging horde", "war chief")
• giants: "isolated tribes and clans", "shamans", opposite "empires"
• lizardfolk ("arent skilled artisans", "lizardfolk shamans", "prisoners eaten by the tribe")
• merfolk ("tribes and kingdoms", "lack means to write books")
• quaggoth ("never an enlightened species", "brutal", "savage", "nocturnal arboreal hunters", "cannibalism", "ferocity", "tribal shaman")
• troglodyte ("savage, degenerate, constant state of war", "loathsome, blood, dung", "filth", "too simple to plan", "raids", "hunting", "sadistic pleasure", "no mercy", "scavenging", "the largest become the leaders of the tribe", "make little", "a troglodyte tribe might be torn apart by battles over a single longsword", "demonic", "monstrous")
• flying snake ("tribespeople and cultists")
• druid ("forest, wilderness", "protect the natural from civilization", "tribal shamans heal")
• tribal warrior ("beyond civilization, fishing, hunting")



The impression from the Monster Manual descriptions suggests a poor opinion about what a "tribe" is, and which "races" should have them.

These kinds of stereotypes about "tribes" are highly problematic.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The impression from the Monster Manual descriptions suggests a poor opinion about what a "tribe" is, and which "races" should have them.

These kinds of stereotypes about "tribes" are highly problematic.

Yes.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with rules allowing half-orcs to be stronger than halflings.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

There's an easy solution here, understanding that Fantastical beings, are not representative of humans.

Regardless, this threads on a path to lock, if you all keep going on about this topic.

Trust me, I have no wish to go further down that path. It has been a war for close to a year now.

 

[Bill Zebub]

It took me a while to understand that the question referred to racial ability score modifiers at character creation... usually when I say ASI (ability score increase) I mean those you earn every few levels up.

I also don't like that kind of ASI.

Just sayin'

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

OK here goes, for the millionth time by the millionth poster:

Ability stats are genetic. A Golaith or Dwarf or Half-Orc all are naturally stronger and tougher due to evolutionary pressures. They had to be due to the environment they evolved in. And yes, Darwinism works in D&D. A Halfling was never going to overpower some wild animal with brute strength, so they evolved to be quicker, more dexterous. Gnomes, well, they evolved where the smarter of the species thrived. The same process can be applied throughout the now Pokemon universe of all playable species.

Now, are there exceptions to the basic evolutionary pressures? Of course.
And players get to mess with a 27 point buy or Std Array to present those exceptions and differences within a species.

But ONLY after minimum levels of ability stats for that species have been met. See my post from several pages back. People want to apply a floating ASI? OK, knock yourself out. But ONLY after MINIMUM ability scores attributed to that speces are met using the 27 point buy or Std Array. And of course, under NO situation, does a char start at level 1 with any ability over 17.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Yeah, and that's fine, just seems odd to call it out as something to not be used, when it is a defined rules container in the printed text by the company.

I 100% agree with what you said. I quoted you to add a "yes and" yo what you said, not a "yes, but".

I thing maybe board etiquette is changing from way back in the 3e days because I have not had a problem with people assuming I am quoting them to rebut what they were saying until these past couple years. I probably need to drop the quoting, but I feel like it lends to helping follow a particular discussion better than just saying something without it's preceding comment.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Regarding the poll, I analyze the results as follows:

The issue divides the D&D community (or at least the ENWorld community). More players prefer race be nondeterminant.



CULTURE DETERMINES ABILITIES (49.5%)
• Floating ASI without restrictions. Votes: 20 (22.5%)
• No ASI. Votes: 24 (27.0%)

RACE DETERMINES ABILITIES (39.4%)
• Fixed ASI including possible negatives. Votes: 15 (16.9%)
• Fixed ASI without negatives. Votes: 3 (3.4%)
• Some fixed and some floating ASI. Votes: 12 (13.5%)
• Floating ASI with restrictions. Votes: 5 (5.6%)

You can also represent racial determined abilities by no ASI. If I want to play a big beefcake half-orc I just assign my highest stat to STR. I don't have to have some game element forcing me to do so to represent it that way.

No ASI allows you to build your character with whatever story you want to embrace. Whether it's a naturally muscular Goliath having a 17STR, a 300 year old blacksmith with crazy toned physique like a dwarf blacksmith, a human who drank a super serum of some crazy wizard who hulked out (Captain Waterdeepia), or even a halfling who is incredibly lucky in combat and always seems to hit harder than they seem like they should be side of accidental minor sneak attacks.

All things under one system.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

OK here goes, for the millionth time by the millionth poster:

Ability stats are genetic. A Golaith or Dwarf or Half-Orc all are naturally stronger and tougher due to evolutionary pressures. They had to be due to the environment they evolved in. And yes, Darwinism works in D&D. A Halfling was never going to overpower some wild animal with brute strength, so they evolved to be quicker, more dexterous. Gnomes, well, they evolved where the smarter of the species thrived. The same process can be applied throughout the now Pokemon universe of all playable species.

Now, are there exceptions to the basic evolutionary pressures? Of course.
And players get to mess with a 27 point buy or Std Array to present those exceptions and differences within a species.

But ONLY after minimum levels of ability stats for that species have been met. See my post from several pages back. People want to apply a floating ASI? OK, knock yourself out. But ONLY after MINIMUM ability scores attributed to that speces are met using the 27 point buy or Std Array. And of course, under NO situation, does a char start at level 1 with any ability over 17.

Let's try a real world example. Give me one stat and one minimum you would like to see in place under this system and I will see if I can come up with a viable reasonable character concept that will fall under the threshold that you set.

 

[Scribe]

I 100% agree with what you said. I quoted you to add a "yes and" yo what you said, not a "yes, but".

I thing maybe board etiquette is changing from way back in the 3e days because I have not had a problem with people assuming I am quoting them to rebut what they were saying until these past couple years. I probably need to drop the quoting, but I feel like it lends to helping follow a particular discussion better than just saying something without it's preceding comment.

I feel I was agreeing with you as well, not rebutting you there.

These boards are combative by nature it seems, no harm no foul, apologies if I gave the wrong impression.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You can also represent racial determined abilities by no ASI. If I want to play a big beefcake half-orc I just assign my highest stat to STR. I don't have to have some game element forcing me to do so to represent it that way.

And without ASIs that half-orc is not stronger than a strong halfling.

No ASI allows you to build your character with whatever story you want to embrace. Whether it's a naturally muscular Goliath having a 17STR, a 300 year old blacksmith with crazy toned physique like a dwarf blacksmith, a human who drank a super serum of some crazy wizard who hulked out (Captain Waterdeepia), or even a halfling who is incredibly lucky in combat and always seems to hit harder than they seem like they should be side of accidental minor sneak attacks.

Ok. But why does this super exceptionalism only apply to ASIs? If I feel my dhampir should have fear resistance of halflings and charm resistance of elves because they are completely emotionally dead inside, why I can't have that? If I feel that it would be cool that my fire geneasi can breathe fire like a dragonborn, why can't I have that? If I want my halfling to have drunk a super serum that gives him wings, why can't I have that?

Like sure, I get the 'PCs are unique superheroes' angle, but then lets at least be logically consistent with it and apply it to traits too.