D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[JiffyPopTart]

LOL....exactly what classes have you played?

Hedxblade is lethal at level 1. Clerics and Socerers also choose their subclass at level 1. Wizard's choose theirs at level 2.
To suggest that levels 1 and 2 are "novice or zero tier" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

Tier 1, by 5e's own standards, is 1-4. Do you have some difficulty RP'ing a level 1 char, that is just starting out on their adventuring career? I certainly don't. I love playing level 1's, where every combat, no matter how trivial, can end in death.

Your two paragraphs are at odds with each other.

In paragraph 1 you point out how awesome so.e 1 and 2 level characters are (so not novice). Then in paragraph 2 you say you like playing low (novice) level because you are always 1 combat away from death.

Maybe to some people 1 combat from death is their definition of novice.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

And, once more, if you have an example of that, please post it, but I warn you that there, from my perspective, there is NOTHING in a character concept that requires a given stat. If you have this as the basis of your "concept" you'd better be ready to justify that, inherently, you need a higher stat than the one provided by a racial ASI.

I'll flip it to show you the absurdity of this statement.

Do you have an example of how a character receiving a fixed ASI in their primary stat is necessary? I warn you ahead of time there is from my perspective NOTHING in worldbuilding concepts requires a certain stat. If you have this as a basis of your world building then you better be ready to justify, inherently, why your members of a particular race ALWAYS have to have a fixed stat higher instead of choosing that stat from a list of 6.

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe to some people 1 combat from death is their definition of novice.

I think that's because many use nonelite T1 enemies for many levels as adventure padding.

If you use a lot of basic orcs levels 1-12, it warps perception.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Do you have an example of how a character receiving a fixed ASI in their primary stat is necessary? I warn you ahead of time there is from my perspective NOTHING in worldbuilding concepts requires a certain stat. If you have this as a basis of your world building then you better be ready to justify, inherently, why your members of a particular race ALWAYS have to have a fixed stat higher instead of choosing that stat from a list of 6.

Because stats only matter in relatively. +2 to strength doesn't make anyone strong, having a higher strength than others does.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Tiers are not about lethality or specialty. It's about effect on the world due to the impact of their skills, knowledge, and talents.

A level 1 hexblade might murderize some goblins. However if they anger a generic knight, they will be destroyed easily.

At level 1, you can't affect more than a town or city level area without long term planning. Tier 1s can't stop a motivated orc chief alone. Tier 2s can. Tier 3s scoff at the idea. And Tier 4s think its a joke.

Any PC can have a battle that can end in death. What changes is what is needed to challenge them. You can have a grimy and gritty game at level 15. However you likely must travel to the 9th level of hell or a demon prince's abyssal castle.

So what you are saying is "I don't want to develop a char from scratch, and watch that char grow in power and experience. I want to jump right to the point where I can project power."

Right, understood. Now who is the player that wants to RP again, and which one doesn't?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Because stats only matter in relatively. +2 to strength doesn't make anyone strong, having a higher strength than others does.

So you are fine with a 17STR halfling fighter in a party of wizards, just not in a party with another 17STR race that has a +STR ASI? Of can it not exist at all because of the theoretical +ASI 17STR character that isn't in the party?

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Your two paragraphs are at odds with each other.

In paragraph 1 you point out how awesome so.e 1 and 2 level characters are (so not novice). Then in paragraph 2 you say you like playing low (novice) level because you are always 1 combat away from death.

Maybe to some people 1 combat from death is their definition of novice.

Low level, and one step away from death is not "novice". A wizards starts with a spell book with 6 spells in it, presumably a gift from a mentor. A Level 0 wizard with no spellbook, that is a "novice".
A fighter with no armour, no shield, just a wooden club they fashioned, or an axe they chopped wood with at home, that is a "novice".

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So you are fine with a 17STR halfling fighter in a party of wizards, just not in a party with another 17STR race that has a +STR ASI? Of can it not exist at all because of the theoretical +ASI 17STR character that isn't in the party?

In former case it indeed would be less of a problem. Though I still like these things to be fixed for world building reasons. As a GM I want rules to have concrete(ish) meaning. It helps me adjudicate NPC stats, DCs etc.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

So what you are saying is "I don't want to develop a char from scratch, and watch that char grow in power and experience. I want to jump right to the point where I can project power."

Right, understood. Now who is the player that wants to RP again, and which one doesn't?

Thats not what power gaming has ever meant.

Playing a heroic character is a theme of a game/story. There are only so many times you can explore the "save your village from goblins led by an orc" or "clear out the rats from my basement" story before you get tired of it. Skipping the rat/goblin phase and picking up a story when the group of heroes leave the town and head to the city is NOT powergaming.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Low level, and one step away from death is not "novice". A wizards starts with a spell book with 6 spells in it, presumably a gift from a mentor. A Level 0 wizard with no spellbook, that is a "novice".
A fighter with no armour, no shield, just a wooden club they fashioned, or an axe they chopped wood with at home, that is a "novice".

There is no level 0 wizard without a spell book in 5e. As far as I know there has never been a level 0 anything in any edition except for the Dragonlance/Greyhawk 1e book as an optional starting adventure.

By your logic even the cantrio no spellbook day 3 at the wizard academy character isn't a novice compared to the 14 year old killed a deer with the family bow, who isn't novice compared to the 2 year old pooped their pants.