How do you pronunce "grognard"?

[Hex08]

I have never said it out loud so if you imagine pure silence then that's how I pronounce it.

 

[Tonguez]

Do you or anyone else on the thread know when we started using it? I am honestly a little surprised I never thought about this before, but I feel like this has to be the result of old wargamers -- or rather, young wargamers from a long time ago -- complaining about even older wargamers.

1986 start, incidentally, so I'm kind of a... grognennial?

It was used in 1970s Wargaming circles, after the expansion of wargaming and entry of the likes of Milton Bradley and Steve Jackson. The old traditionalist grumbling about the new players and their ideas - some of those ideas developed into RPGs.
Its kinda ironic justice that thos old school gamers now attract the label

 

[niklinna]

Do you or anyone else on the thread know when we started using it? I am honestly a little surprised I never thought about this before, but I feel like this has to be the result of old wargamers -- or rather, young wargamers from a long time ago -- complaining about even older wargamers.

1986 start, incidentally, so I'm kind of a... grognennial?

This guy seems to have some ideas – Grognard: Ruminations On 40 Years in Gaming – Goodreads

By Loren Wiseman - Wikipedia

 

[J.Quondam]

Do you or anyone else on the thread know when we started using it? I am honestly a little surprised I never thought about this before, but I feel like this has to be the result of old wargamers -- or rather, young wargamers from a long time ago -- complaining about even older wargamers.

1986 start, incidentally, so I'm kind of a... grognennial?

Here's Google's NGram Viewer data (high smoothing) for the word over roughly the last century:

source:

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Books Ngram Viewer

books.google.com

It's just data for books only (no magazines, spoken word, etc, iirc). But the word was on a decline for most of the 20th century, then started trending upward again around 1980.
It's really uncommon English word (and also a name), but I wonder if that reverse is due to its use in wargaming and (later) in RPGing? The times seem to match up pretty well.

 

[DMZ2112]

This guy seems to have some ideas – Grognard: Ruminations On 40 Years in Gaming – Goodreads

By Loren Wiseman - Wikipedia

I like that this excerpt makes it clear that the term was self-applied and not a slur. It is better that way.

 

[Yaarel]

From the OED:
Pronunciation: Brit. Hear pronunciation/ɡrɒnˈjɑː/, Hear pronunciation/ˈɡrɒɡnɑːd/, U.S. Hear pronunciation/ɡroʊnˈjɑr/, Hear pronunciation/ˈɡroʊɡˌnɑrd/, Hear pronunciation/ˈɡrɑɡˌnɑrd/

I've always pronounced it /ˈɡrɑɡˌnɑrd/

Yeah exactly.



By the way, @niklinna

The second option has an error

"grog-NARD" ≠ /'ɡrɑɡnɑrd/



It would either be:

"grog-NARD" = /ɡrɑɡ'nɑrd/


Or:

"GROG-nard" = /ˈɡrɑɡnɑrd/

Or better yet, as MNblockhead has it:

"GROG-nard" = /ˈɡrɑɡˌnɑrd/

 

[billd91]

It's spell grognard, but it's pronounced Raymond Luxury Yacht.

 

[Stattick]

Dunno what the correct pronunciation is supposed to be, but I've always thought that it was pronounced, "grog" like the pirate drink, and "nard" like a teste.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Dunno what the correct pronunciation is supposed to be, but I've always thought that it was pronounced, "grog" like the pirate drink, and "nard" like a teste.

If someone offers you some nardgrog, decline.

 

[Stattick]

If someone offers you some nardgrog, decline.

♫ Do you like pina coladas?

 

[Tonguez]

♫ Do you like pina coladas?

Especially after making love at midnight, in the dunes on the cape

 

[reelo]

As someone who's been speaking French since the age of 7 and who's married to a French woman, the correct pronounciation (for an English speaker trying to sound correct) would be something like "groin-yard" (without the -d in yard, and with the stress on the second syllable)

 

[Committed Hero]

This guy seems to have some ideas – Grognard: Ruminations On 40 Years in Gaming – Goodreads

By Loren Wiseman - Wikipedia

And Loren would have known - as a part owner of GDW, he is one of the fathers of Traveller.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

As someone who's been speaking French since the age of 7 and who's married to a French woman, the correct pronounciation (for an English speaker trying to sound correct) would be something like "groin-yard" (without the -d in yard, and with the stress on the second syllable)

And with a different kind of r.

(The r that English uses is rare and weird among the world's languages.)

 

[reelo]

And with a different kind of r.

(The r that English uses is rare and weird among the world's languages.)

Yes, I wasn't even trying to have English speakers make a glottal r

 

[overgeeked]

I've always pronounced it "Grog-nard", but then I also say "Mee-lee" instead of "may-lay", so what do I know....

You pronounce it grognard, because in this context it's an American word and Americans pronounce all foreign words wrong.

(Sorry, but you all know it's true. )

Yep. I know it’s a French word and should be pronounced the French way, but we mangle foreign words in English. So it’s mee-lee and grog-nard. Not may-lay and gron-yar.

 

[Arakhor]

I say MEH-lay and GRON-yard, not that I've ever said the second word, but it  looks French, so i automatically interpret it in the same way as Cro Magnon or filet mignon.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I’ve always used the French pronunciation even when I lived in England. These days I live in a predominantly Francophone country so that pronunciation persisted. I was a bit surprised when I first heard the English pronunciation from the podcast, The Grognard files but fair enough these types of pronunciation shift happen all the time so if it becomes a general usage then it’s not wrong… Like saying “Paris” rather than “Paree”.

 

[aramis erak]

It was used in 1970s Wargaming circles, after the expansion of wargaming and entry of the likes of Milton Bradley and Steve Jackson. The old traditionalist grumbling about the new players and their ideas - some of those ideas developed into RPGs.
Its kinda ironic justice that thos old school gamers now attract the label

Dude... some of us revel in it!

I've often seen it used as an affectionate description of the graybeard running old games for the younger generations. This is especially true for the Traveller fandom. And has been used as a self-descriptive by a surprisingly large number of posters on COTI.

I acquired knowledge of the term in roleplaying when I started hitting traveller email lists in the mid 1990's; I was, however, aware of its use in wargaming circles from years prior. I think about 1987, guy named Ken, doing minis games for youth, meeting in a mall. He self-referenced as a grog-nard (even emphasis).

 

[The Shadow]

In the context of D&D, I've always pronounced it "GRAWN-yard", sort of an American bastardization of the French pronunciation.

Right there with you! I've never studied French, so I mangle it, but at least I know I'm mangling it.

And I say "meh-lay".