D&D 5E (2024) How do you rule using a Hand Crossbow with a nick weapon

[UngeheuerLich]

It may be impossible, but they can still do it. They can do all kinds of impossible things, doing the impossible is actually an integral part of the game. They can even shoot a hand crossbow while levitating upside down .... as long as they have one hand free to load the ammunition.

That is a weird hill to die on.

Being impossible is not what makes PCs be unable to do something, being contrary to the rules is.

Lets just agree to disagree here.

 

[Lord Twig]

Verisimilitude and the Art of the Crossbow Expert!

I was never a fan of the Crossbow Expert feat as it didn't make sense that you could load and shoot a heavy crossbow twice (or eight times if you were an Action Surging 20th level Fighter) in six seconds. Whenever I voiced this complaint inevitably someone would say, "But Fireball!" as if all that was required for a Wizard to create a 40' ball of fire was to "wiggle his fingers with a pinch of bat guano and say a few words."

No. It takes more than that. A Wizard uses magic to make a Fireball. Magic is the science of D&D. It would be like saying that you wanted to throw a bullet at someone without a rifle and it should be just as effective. Likewise, a Monk can punch a dragon to death because of magic, not just because he can punch good.

I considered just banning Crossbow Expert as a feat, but I know people like using crossbows and the character fighting with two hand crossbows is a cool concept. So, I applied science (read: magic) to the Crossbow Expert feat. I see it as similar to the way that Fey Touched, Shadow Touched, Telekinetic and Telepathic feats give you magical abilities.

Crossbow Expert​

General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Dexterity 13+)

You gain the following benefits.

Ability Score Increase. Increase your Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Magical Loading. You may perform a 10 minute ritual to enchant a Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, or Light Crossbow. Thereafter you can ignore the Loading property of the enchanted crossbow. When you make an attack with one of your enchanted crossbows, it will magically cock and load a piece of ammunition you possess in a quiver that you have equipped without the need of a free hand.
You can have up to two enchanted crossbows. If you attempt to enchant a third crossbow, you must break the enchantment with one of your existing enchanted crossbows.

Firing in Melee. Being within 5 feet of an enemy doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with crossbows.

Dual Crossbow Wielding. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the extra attack if that attack is with a crossbow that has the Light property and you aren’t already adding that modifier to the damage.

 

[Rainbow Scissors]

Just a reminder that under the 5e24 rules, dropping a weapon is considered unequipping it.

Attack [Action]

When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an unarmed strike

Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

You get one equip OR one unequip as part of the attack action. Since your attack action includes draw, you don't get a "no action" drop.

Other areas of the rules say differently.

Though, I think I agree that may be a case of specific over-riding general.

However, according to the guy who wrote the rules:
"The intent is that letting go of something requires no appreciable effort. But picking it up does." ~ Jeremy Crawford

So, in the end, I dunno. I do think the dropping, drawing, and juggling is a bit ridiculous, but it's far from the most ridiculous thing you can do with the 2024 rules. Somehow, they are simultaneously more streamlined and more convoluted in some places when compared to 2014,

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

However, according to the guy who wrote the rules:
"The intent is that letting go of something requires no appreciable effort. But picking it up does." ~ Jeremy Crawford

Just a reminder that he said that about the 2014 rules (it's a quote from 2015)- not about the intent of the 2024 rules.*

I'm pretty sure that this is something that they were specifically trying to address by adding "dropping" to the "unequipping" language in the rules glossary for the 2024 rules. That said, I think that while I can infer the intent, the fact that the various rules are all over the place (and the fact that the "free object interaction" is ... I mean ... I've taken my stab at it but I acknowledge that reasonable minds can disagree) means that different tables are going to muddle along.


*As always, the primary problem with 14 and 24 is that they are close enough most of the time, but there are some really weird and small differences that matter.

 

[Plaguescarred]

If equip/unequip was intended to be limited to 1/action instead of 1/attack "when you make an attack" would have been an unecessary addition;

The new SRD 5.2.1 has a conversion guide from SRD 5.1 to SRD 5.2.1 for creators looking to update their materials SRD v5.2.1 - System Reference Document - D&D Beyond

It contains the following text confirming that you're intended to be able to equip and unequip on each attack of the Attack action;

Attack Action [Revised Rule] The Attack action contains several revisions:

• The action now specifies that it involves an attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.

• The action now allows you to equip or unequip one weapon with each attack you make with the action.

• The ability to move between attacks during com bat is now a function of the Attack action rather than a general rule.

 

[mellored]

I always find that one funny - how, exactly?

Is it any funnier than how, exactly, does someone toss a firebolt?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Is it any funnier than how, exactly, does someone toss a firebolt?

Yes. Yes, it is.

And you are talking to someone who prefers low-magic, and can't stand it when D&D seems to need things to be magical to do great things - even things that people can actually do IRL. For example, in 4e there was a magical axe, whose great "magic power" was that once per encounter, you could knock an enemy prone. How's that magic? That's just a nice hooked 'beard' on the axe, and a wielder that knows how to use it!

I'd have no problems with multi-loading crossbows that are a property of the weapon itself (repeating crossbows were a real thing, after all) but the idea that you can actually physically reload a crossbow with no hands? I think it's silly.

I don't care enough to outlaw it or anything. And I can assume that the fluff is any combination of things (usually involving some kind of specialty gear in my head-cannon. Either repeater-crossbow "clips" like I mention above, or hooks on your person where you can fast-load the crossbow or put it away to give yourself the free hand for a brief moment, or a mouthful of quarrels, or whatever the individual character wants).

I assume most people just shrug and ignore it.

If you want quarrels to magically appear in the crossbow like your firebolt example? Sure, you do whatever you like.