How do you spice up your orcs?

[S'mon]

If you admire Caeser, you might admire some of his noble traits yet the man in the end killed a lot of gauls for his personal gain, pretty evil stuff.

Good example - the Gauls weren't 'civilised' and so were not included within the value set of the Roman honour system. By contrast the Romans regarded the Greeks as being within their value set, ie suitable subjects for honorable behaviour. Yet the Greeks from the POV of their own code saw the Romans as dishonourable because eg the Romans wouldn't accept battlefield surrender. In the Greek system, when a warrior surrendered you took him prisoner. In the Roman system, when an enemy stopped fighting you stabbed him in the gut and went on to the next one.

Different, incompatible honour codes can create very interesting dynamics for an RPG. For instance, both sides initially treat the other 'honourably', but then one does something -within their code - the other regards as an atrocity. The normal response is to then exclude that foe from the value set and engage in all-out war. But there's also the possibility of trying to clear up the mistake, establish new & mutually acceptable ground rules, etc.

One side's "execution of enemy combatants not in uniform" is another's "massacre of civilians".

 

[S'mon]

I think the "Knights that treat peasants like crap" is a dead end. Most of the "honorable" in these sorts of situations is based on social class. But the orc archetype is overwhelmingly lower class, which makes them a poor choice for those sorts of antagonist.

No, you can easily give them a 'tribal warrior' type code, as suggested above, where they respect strength and treat enemy warriors (maybe only melee combatants?) honorably while happily massacring villagers.

I guess Tolkien's orcs are 'lower class' in a way, but orcs will have their own classes, with elite warriors, drudges et al. They don't have to have a chivalric code resembling that of the European middle ages, but they'll certainly have some sort of code.

For instance, do the strongest warriors lead the attack, or do they stay at the back and send in the weakest orcs as sword-fodder? That will have a major impact on how orcs 'feel' in play.

 

[Rechan]

At this point the honor topic is threadjacking. ORCS PEOPLE.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

My orcs were typical orcs in that they would raid human settlements, burn the town, and eat babies. However, they also showed great respect for strength and courage. A warrior that fought on alone despite the odds might be spared death. An orcs word was his bond. If an orc guaranteed you passage, you got it, regardless of what individual orcs thought about it. If, for example, Grok the orc granted you passage through a pass because you saved his life, and another orc refused you passage, or attacked, it would be an affront to Grok's honor and the orc would have to be dealt with ritualisticly. Think of Worf and STNG Klingons.

This inspired me.

Whether ya call it honor or something else, what I think makes this kind of orc interesting is cultural motivation.

Orcs are a people who practically worship strength. So this makes me think of the "law of the playground" where backing down brands you a coward. Every affront must be answered. Breaking one's word is seen as cowardly (because one didn't have the strength to back it up).

Orc credo: "If it can be accomplished or enforced through fighting, it must be."

 

[Celebrim]

At this point the honor topic is threadjacking. ORCS PEOPLE.

Considering that the OP asked a crunch question, and virtually everyone answered with a fluff response, the whole thread is a somewhat insulting threadjack. When did the OP suggest that he needed help imagining orcish culture? Maybe he has his own ideas about that. What makes anyone think he needs their creativity imagining orcs? Maybe he appreciates it and maybe he doesn't, but the OP asked for help making orcs into effective and non-redundant high level villains. All his questions were crunch related. All the answers he's gotten back are largely fluff related.

 

[Imaginary Number]

I'm the OP, and I'm just now getting a chance to catch up on all the responses. I appreciate all the suggestions so far. As Celebrim suggests, however, the thread has tended to wander from the topic I started with.

Perhaps a bit more background will help focus on what I'm looking for. During our last campaign, my PCs happened to wander through a part of my homebrew world that once was an elvish kingdom but since has been taken over by orcs. The party allied itself briefly with the few elves and other fey who still lived there before moving on to other adventures. The players always wanted to go back but never had the chance before the campaign was over. So when it came time to discuss what to do for the next campaign, they all decided that they wanted to create a party of elves/eladrin and allied creatures to fight the orcs and help restore the old elvish kingdom.

When I began to outline some adventure hooks for the new campaign, however, I had some problems coming up with ideas that would keep the players interested for several levels of play. We'll obviously have eldritch ruins filled with mean, nasty humanoids and hidden magical secrets, but what else? Many of the suggestions above already have inspired me to have a few distinct orcish factions that have different mounts, favored weapons, feats, cultural values, etc. Now I'm moving on to think about what else might provide us with some variety. What other monsters ally well with orcs to beef them up, either thematically or from a crunch-related perspective? (Ogres and trolls come immediatey to mind, but I'm sure there are others as well.) What mastermind-type monsters or villains might the orcs follow? What sorts of traps or magic could the orcs use that the players might not expect? (My game will be 4e, but I think the question applies to anything you've done to make orcs more interesting long-term antagonists for the party in any edition.)

 

[Stoat]

What other monsters ally well with orcs to beef them up, either thematically or from a crunch-related perspective?

Traditionally, Orcs use wolves and boars as pets/mounts, goblins as slaves, and ogres or giants as "heavy hitters." Orc shamans focus on close-range destructive magic and curses -- more like controllers than artillery. From a 4E perspective, it's a range of monsters heavy on brutes and skirmishers and light on soldiers and artillery.

I'd avoid mixing in too many other humanoid races. I'd stick with orcs and goblins and keep away from hobgoblins, gnolls, kobolds, etc. etc. At higher levels, I might throw in some demons or elementals, summoned by the shaman or gifted to the orcs by Gruumsh. Any sort of big dumb monster (a hydra, chimera, wyvern etc.) might work as either a guard beast or a rogue element not allied with the orcs.

What mastermind-type monsters or villains might the orcs follow?

I wouldn't have any. I'd stat up three to four powerful orcs -- either shamans or warlords -- and put each in charge of a different part of the ruins. They compete with each other but ally against outsiders. Maybe one group is particularly loyal to Gruumsh and features lots of shamans, berserkers and demons. Another group is notable for its use of goblin slaves and stealthy, guerrilla warfare. A third group relies on its wolfriders to protect itself.

What sorts of traps or magic could the orcs use that the players might not expect?

Traps should be direct, brutal and fairly crude. No elaborate Grimtooth-style constructions. Pits, nets, deadfalls, etc. are the order of the day.

Magic is destructive. Blasts of fire, waves of necrotic energey, powers that force opponents into a berserk rage.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Considering that the OP asked a crunch question, and virtually everyone answered with a fluff response, the whole thread is a somewhat insulting threadjack. When did the OP suggest that he needed help imagining orcish culture? Maybe he has his own ideas about that. What makes anyone think he needs their creativity imagining orcs? Maybe he appreciates it and maybe he doesn't, but the OP asked for help making orcs into effective and non-redundant high level villains. All his questions were crunch related. All the answers he's gotten back are largely fluff related.

Orcs were never meant to be high level villains. They are for low level characters to hone their skills on and they are the horde that threatens civilization. They have one hit dice for this very reason. That's not to say they can't be a part of a high level game, or that an individual orc can't be special enough to be level 18, but in general, orcs are cannon fodder, fluff is all that separates them from numbers on a page.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Roast Orc

Removed

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Ingredients:
1 large loin roast of orc, trimmed of fat
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/2 teaspoon powdered thyme
1 1/2 teaspoons dry mustard
1/2 teaspoon powdered ginger
1 1/4 cups orange juice
3/4 cup honey
1 unpeeled orange, thinly sliced

Directions:

Place roast in shallow baking pan. Combine salt, thyme, mustard, and ginger and rub all over the meat. Bake 1 hour at 300 degrees F., then baste with 1/4 cup orange juice. Bake 1 hour more, basting 3 more times with 1/4 cup orange juice each time. Combine remaining 1/4 cup orange juice and honey and baste with this mixture. Bake 45 minutes longer or until meat thermometer registers 185 degrees F. Baste often with liquid in bottom of the pan. Garnish with orange slices.

Serves 6

The texture and flavor of orc meat is much like that of pork, except there is little fat. The meat has a gamey taste because of the creature's diet. Like pork, orc must be cooked to well done(185 degrees F.) or frozen 3-4 weeks before cooking. Orc is cleaned, dressed, and cooked in the same way as pork. Very young orcs are barbecued whole.

I much prefer orc chops to orc roast, which has a tendency to come out dry.