How does the GSL affect me?

[Kez Darksun]

Just a quick note on the whole OGL/GSL situation as far as it concerns me as a consumer. What the revelation of the GSL has done for me is to make me once again excited about the various 3rd party publishers and their products. I'm still interested in seeing what more 4th edition has to offer in the coming months, and I know I'll get products for 4th edition, but what I realized is that one of the things I really value about 3.x D&D is the OGL and all the material people have come up with to support it.

I had heard about Pathfinder when the Alpha first came out, but I hadn't payed much attention to it. Once I saw the GSL and remembered all the cool products I purchased from OGL publishers, I went out and signed up on Paizo's boards so I could download the Alpha and see what it was all about, then I went out and picked up pretty much everything from Dreamscarred Press since I really enjoy Psionics and I wanted to see what they had developed for Psionics.

It will be interesting to see what people come up with for 4th edition products in the coming months, and while I'm looking forward to seeing the fruits of their creativity for 4th edition, I'm glad there will also be work continuing to be done under the OGL also by some of the same creators.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

You're mistaken . There are provisions in the GSL that you remain bound by, even if it is yanked. Not using the OGL with content that was previously released under the GSL is one of them.

Ken

If someone were to lose their GSL license, then they could simply go over and use the OGL instead. Part of the GSL license is that you can't make OGL, but if they yank it, there's nothing in the OGL that says you can't. It's part of the GSL license, which you no longer qualify for.

*dizzy*



Chris

 

[Kristian Serrano]

I think the overall danger is that the GSL is effectively an OGL and d20 STL rolled into one, which really hinders the flexibility inherent in the OGL alone.

 

[GMSkarka]

For every established publisher that decides they can't take the risk, I predict three new publishers will appear to try to make a go of it.

Most of these will be crap

Exactly. The most experienced publishers will most likely stay away from the GSL, because of all of the red-flag clauses within it.

So, you'll see a flood of amateur products, most of which will be crap.

As a result, Hasbro will then rescind the GSL, citing protection of their brand. They'll tell WOTC "We told you so", and there will no longer be a 4E support license.

Some WOTC staffers are saying privately that a big part of the delay was a fight over getting any license out there at all, which Hasbro legal did not want. A flood of sub-standard license-violating product will give Legal all the excuse it needs to withdraw the license as a whole -- claiming that they have to protect their brand, and they don't have the personnel to police such a wide array of product.

That's what I expect to happen, no later than the end of this year.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

Exactly. The most experienced publishers will most likely stay away from the GSL, because of all of the red-flag clauses within it.

So, you'll see a flood of amateur products, most of which will be crap.

As a result, Hasbro will then rescind the GSL, citing protection of their brand. They'll tell WOTC "We told you so", and there will no longer be a 4E support license.

Some WOTC staffers are saying privately that a big part of the delay was a fight over getting any license out there at all, which Hasbro legal did not want. A flood of sub-standard license-violating product will give Legal all the excuse it needs to withdraw the license as a whole -- claiming that they have to protect their brand, and they don't have the personnel to police such a wide array of product.

That's what I expect to happen, no later than the end of this year.

That is entirely possible, and sadly, would not surprise me coming from Hasbro.
The GSL affects me, because I could count on 3PP to put out fun, well written stuff for DnD, unlike WotC. 90% of the 3.X stuff I own is 3PP, NOT WotC. It was simply better written, when you went with the Necromancer/Paizo/Green Ronin/Goodman type folks. That looks to be not available with 4e.
WotC will be releasing (on their own slow schedule), but a lot of things I would like, I don't expect to see decent examples of from WotC. Things like Paizo style Adventure Paths. WotC is not known for putting out good adventures. Or many at all. New Class books are always possible, and that was one thing I was looking forward to from 3PP, rather than waiting on the glacial progress of WotC to release info on the "classic" classes that many of my players would like to see (Druid, Bard, Barbarian, Monk, etc).

I don't think the GSL will "kill" 4e, but it is a disappointment to me as a consumer. And I do think it will server to further fragment the community, in terms of what edition gamers primarily play. The huge sales figures WotC claims right now, may well not stand up to the test of time. People are buying it now, because it is new. Whether it is played and supported as well as 3.X, only time will tell. The same applies to Pathfinder and other 3.X derivatives. While I am likely to buy them, and some (like M&M) I still play quite often, only time will tell how well they perform.

 

[cdrcjsn]

The GSL grants these rights as well, but is revocable. So someone who creates a brand new campaign setting under the GSL, then has it revoked, can face a situation where they have no access to a license that allows production of D&D compatible adventures. That isn't the case for a publisher who sticks with the OGL.

True, but they have the option of making their campaign world with another game system if that happens (non-OGL), either an existing one or a new game system that they develop.

Or drop the D&D logo from their books and continue publishing D&D compatible games (after consulting an IP lawyer).

Or start with a new campaign setting in the OGL.

It sucks, but for a new small publisher, especially one that deals with PDFs and POD book sales, it's not as big an issue as the bigger publishers that have physical back stock.

 

[cdrcjsn]

So, you'll see a flood of amateur products, most of which will be crap.

As a result, Hasbro will then rescind the GSL, citing protection of their brand. They'll tell WOTC "We told you so", and there will no longer be a 4E support license.

They'll just point to the fact that the same thing happened when the OGL was released. WIthin a couple of years, the crappy stuff dropped off the radar and consumers were left with mostly quality products.

The only difference this time is that the 3rd party publishers can't create a new set of rules to create characters, meaning that it pretty much guarantees sales of the core books even if consumers do buy from 3rd party publishers.

 

[hazel monday]

I couldn't be happier about the GSL.
I prefer the 3rd edition system. And now, all the really good 3rd party publishers are going to stay writing for my rule system of choice.
Paizo will be staying away from 4th, Sinister adventures will be staying away from 4th, Necromancer projects that were slated to be written for 4th will now be written for 3rd.
It may be that the ultra restrictive GSL will keep Kobold Quarterly from writing for 4th ed. As a fan of 3rd ed, and a fan of 3rd party designers like Nic Logue, Mike Kortes and Wolfgang Bauer, the GSL is the best thing that WOTC has done since the OGL. I'm psyched that my favorite RPG designers and writers won't be wasting their efforts on a system that I think is rubbish.
So, whoever the suit at Hasbro was that thought it would be a good idea for WOTC to abandon the OGL, they have my sincere gratitude.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

I couldn't be happier about the GSL.
I prefer the 3rd edition system. And now, all the really good 3rd party publishers are going to stay writing for my rule system of choice.
Paizo will be staying away from 4th, Sinister adventures will be staying away from 4th, Necromancer projects that were slated to be written for 4th will now be written for 3rd.
It may be that the ultra restrictive GSL will keep Kobold Quarterly from writing for 4th ed. As a fan of 3rd ed, and a fan of 3rd party designers like Nic Logue, Mike Kortes and Wolfgang Bauer, the GSL is the best thing that WOTC has done since the OGL. I'm psyched that my favorite RPG designers and writers won't be wasting their efforts on a system that I think is rubbish.
So, whoever the suit at Hasbro was that thought it would be a good idea for WOTC to abandon the OGL, they have my sincere gratitude.

Carefull what you wish for. You are assuming that all these 3pp publishers are going to be able to survive when a large portion of their potential clients are moving on without really looking back. I know that when my current campaign ends the I probably won't pick up my 3e ever again. I wouldn't be suprised to see a few of them fold up or consolidate.

 

[hazel monday]

Carefull what you wish for. You are assuming that all these 3pp publishers are going to be able to survive when a large portion of their potential clients are moving on without really looking back. I know that when my current campaign ends the I probably won't pick up my 3e ever again. I wouldn't be suprised to see a few of them fold up or consolidate.

That may or may not be true. Time will tell.
But the name of this thread is "How does the GSL affect me?" not " Let's speculate on how the GSL will affect RPG publishers."
For 3rd party publishers who want to support 4ed, the GSL may be troubling. But from my perspective as a fan of 3ed, the GSL is peaches & cream.