How does the Paladin stack up?

[Fenes 2]

Sorry, smiting evil ONE TIME per day for only +level damage IF it hits is way too weak to even consider highly.

This only applies if you have a lot of combats per day. IMC, we usually have one "main" combat against the BBEG, not several difficult battles. So for us Smite is a very good ability.

 

[Stalker0]

You can also take the feat to get extra smiting. Personally I think the paly should have gotten some more smites at higher levels, but hey.

for those who don't think the paladin stands up to the fighter, here are some considerations.

I have spells like divine sacrifice, bless weapon, and divine power to helps my damage equal or surpass yours.

I have detect evils so I should rarely be surprised by evil creatures.

Often I have a temple or organization to keep me equipped.

I can heal myself!!

While you run screaming from fear effects, I'm sitting preety.

Those charm spells just don't seem that bad with a +8 or so will save

I have a mount that gets 3 attacks per round if I need it.

There are magic items out there specially designed for the paladin.

 

[Fenes 2]

The Holy Sword of our paladin grants an extra Smite attack per day.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I am with reapersaurus.

RPingwise, a paladin has amazing potential. Crank up the Diplomacy skill and she can even make a Bard or Rogue green. That annoying Code is a huge potential boon here. Yeah, the bard/rogue are smooth talkers, but NPCs will never trust them like they will a paladin.

If you do not do a lot of roleplaying and if you do not get to fight with your paladin mount, the paladin has little to offer that a straight cleric doesn't have in spades.

I look at the paladin as an enjoyable to roleplay character that has some good staying power, and has a few tricks that keep him contributing. But he doesn't have the raw power of a fighter, barbarian or cleric. Not even close.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I am with reapersaurus.

If you do not do a lot of roleplaying and if you do not get to fight with your paladin mount, the paladin has little to offer that a straight cleric doesn't have in spades.

I look at the paladin as an enjoyable to roleplay character that has some good staying power, and has a few tricks that keep him contributing. But he doesn't have the raw power of a fighter, barbarian or cleric. Not even close.

That's funny, I actually think the Fighter and Barbarian are less effective than the Paladin. (We ARE talking single class, right?)

I mean, would I rather have a 15th level Paladin, a 15th level Fighter or a 15th level Barbarian? I'd go Paladin all the way. The extra feats from the Fighter are overkill most of the time. The Barbarian? Please. DR 2? Right.

Now if you bring multiclassing into it, the Paladin starts to lose his bluster. A single-classed Paladin is not as neat as a twinked out Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger/Rogue. This is not even including overpowered PrCs.


Notice how I didn't even bring up the Cleric. That's because a Cleric is more powerful than anything else; a single-classed Fighter or Barbarian included.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

That's funny, I actually think the Fighter and Barbarian are less effective than the Paladin. (We ARE talking single class, right?)

I mean, would I rather have a 15th level Paladin, a 15th level Fighter or a 15th level Barbarian? I'd go Paladin all the way. The extra feats from the Fighter are overkill most of the time. The Barbarian? Please. DR 2? Right.

Now if you bring multiclassing into it, the Paladin starts to lose his bluster. A single-classed Paladin is not as neat as a twinked out Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger/Rogue. This is not even including overpowered PrCs.


Notice how I didn't even bring up the Cleric. That's because a Cleric is more powerful than anything else; a single-classed Fighter or Barbarian included.

Barbarian I agree with, the 4skill points are nice but the class skills aren't great. The rage lame, DR sucks, only thing i like is the movement, and the uncanny dodge.

Fighter I think about tied.(though I give the paladin a slight edge) Those feats may be a bit of overkill(which is why the samurai kicks butt IMO) but no bonus feats hurts for a fighter type. With a fighter I usally have my primary fighting style handled by levle 6-9, and then I get a 2ndary style mastered by level 15. So a pure fighter will be both a master archer, and HtH fighter by 15, the paladin covers usally just one style by that time frame, though the special abilities, and magic make up for it.

And yes the cleric is just the best hands down so no comparison needed.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I mean, would I rather have a 15th level Paladin, a 15th level Fighter or a 15th level Barbarian? I'd go Paladin all the way. The extra feats from the Fighter are overkill most of the time. The Barbarian? Please. DR 2? Right.

You may have a point for a 15th level paladin; she gets her first 4th level spell slot. But I think the fighter and barbarian have a lot more punch and flexibility for levels 1 through 14.

As for multiclassing, that is an implicit big advantage for the barbarian or fighter. A level or three of ranger, rogue, wizard, or cleric adds a lot to one of these characters while giving up little. A paladin that multiclasses really hurts some of her best paladin abilities: lay on hands, smite damage, and access to 4th level spells.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

You may have a point for a 15th level paladin; she gets her first 4th level spell slot. But I think the fighter and barbarian have a lot more punch and flexibility for levels 1 through 14.

Still disagree. The Fighter and Barbarian have lame Saving Throws, don't have any access to healing wands, cannot cast any spells, and cannot turn undead (which is only good at low levels anyway).

As for multiclassing, that is an implicit big advantage for the barbarian or fighter. A level or three of ranger, rogue, wizard, or cleric adds a lot to one of these characters while giving up little. A paladin that multiclasses really hurts some of her best paladin abilities: lay on hands, smite damage, and access to 4th level spells.

Like I said, a Paladin is overshadowed by a multiclassed Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger/Rogue. Luckily, the ELH changes that, since multiclassed characters get the shaft at L21+.

Besides, I am quite fond of having a Griffon or Dragon mount, decking it out in Mithral barding, and covering it with weenie magic items. F/B/R/R's can't quite do this, since they used Charisma as a dump stat...

I normally even get a cohort Paladin too, who has his own Griffon or Dragon mount.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

When it comes to consistent damage output, a barb or fighter overshadows a Paladin. When it comes to situational damage output, a Paladin can rack up some pretty good damage.

Also, if your DM doesn't throw out magic weapons like candy, then there is a good chance that Bless Weapon will be quite useful against creatures with very tough DR.

I would also argue that the Paladin bonus saves, immunity to disease and fear, detect evil, and lay on hands is often more useful during an adventure than barbarian rage or fighter bonus feats.

Throw in all the extra spells, feats, and the uber mounts from Defenders of the Faith, and the Paladin is quite on par with any other class in my opinion. Personally, the paladin I am playing right now doesn't do as much damage as our fighter, but he sure stands up to spell effects and such much better. I don't know how many times the fighter has been held by a hold person spell, confused or feared while I just keep on fighting.

Paladin class is very strong, easily on par with the other melees for overall class abilities. I would go so far as to say better than the other melees when enhanced with spells, feats and mount from Defenders of the Faith.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Just to make a clarification, detect evil is not a radar system. It works exactly the same as the spell:

Round 1) Detect presence of evil auras. Yes or no answer, there are, or are not, evil auras in the space you are scanning.

Round 2) Location and strength of auras

etc

I'd like someone to put the full rules up to clarify my clarification, but you can't just expect to get warning of attacks. You have to stop and scan to get the benefit.

Of course, that's why all my paladins always sit quietly in the corner of the inn...!

PS: Please don't flame me if I've got those rules wrong, but I do know that it doesn't work like it did it 2e anymore...