D&D 5E How freely can a setting mess with core D&D mechanics?


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Coroc

Hero
The Eberron setting book just came out, which has a few new character options, including dragonmarked subraces, and a variety of new gear.

But the setting doesn't change the core mechanics of D&D.

The original Dragonlance mostly forbid divine spellcasting, and tied wizard magic to moon phases. Dark Sun had defiling that caused magic to suck the life out of living things, creating vast swaths of desert.

Check out the optional rules in the DMG when it comes to planar travel. If you based a campaign entirely on another plane, that world's planar traits would alter some underlying assumptions of the game. An all-shadowfell game might have you dealing with 'shadowfell despair' every day. If the whole campaign is in Arcadia, then the 'psychic dissonance' optional rule would basically force everyone to be LG or LN, and the 'planar vitality' optional rule would make people immune to fear and poison.

Ysgard has an optional rule where anyone who dies there resurrects the next morning. That would upend a lot of assumptions about how to play the game.

Have you ever played in a setting where the rules of reality weren't quite the same as the default of D&D (or of whatever ruleset you were playing)?

In the ZEITGEIST adventure path, one of the minor traits of the world is that gold rings block teleportation. If a person is wearing a gold ring, they can't teleport. If you surround a jail cell with a gold ring, someone can't teleport out of it.

Two other traits of the world restrict the duration of magical flight to five minutes, and prevent summoned creatures from sticking around for more than five minutes. All of these have reasons behind them that matter to the plot of the adventure path, and they're fairly minor.

But how far can you step away from default rules before you get uncomfortable?

Would you accept an Ysgard-style game where it's impossible to bleed to death, but death is still possible if someone decapitates you (aka, Highlander)? What about one inspired by the video game Myst, where divination magic doesn't work on islands? If you've watched the TV show Supernatural, salt actually drives off ghosts, and other mundane tricks can protect you from monsters, which might be a fun way to give low-level adventurers tricks in a setting with lots of horror tropes. In a game inspired by His Dark Materials, would you be cool with each PC having a bonded familiar? What if the GM handed each player a copy of their 50 page setting bible, said, "You're all proficient in History as a bonus skill, so you have to read this"?

I've been playing D&D for 23 years. I like trying new things. But how far is too far?

Very good topic, check out how I fought with my homebrew darksun conversion trying to be true to 2e flair so far. It covers things like weapon out of worse material, halfgiants, defiling and it really gave me headaches to find solutions which do not clash with 5e core mechanic.

I cannot tell you at which point the core mechanic absolutely breaks but I can tell you which things do not break the core mechanic:

Restriction of race, class/subclass, alignment and any combination of these do not break anything at all since they are pure fluff.

Restriction of equipment does not break anything if you still have viable options e.g. you need some decent weapon and armor for your fighter or you have to take that into account when building mobs and encounters.

Restriction of spells above 5th level should not break anything, it might shift the class balance a bit though, I would not recommend it for lower levels than 6th and up. Especially spells which allow magical movement and shenanigans can be cancelled without problem.

Otoh Restriction of spells as such does not break anything, if you cover the basics. Means there should eventually be some cure wounds spell for your cleric, but it is not needed that he can cast heat metal.
Again even if some will not believe me spells are fluff also, not basic mechanics.

Now some of the difficult things:

Environmental stuff like weather conditions, planar specialities etc. older editions used to cover this with a busload of pus and minus modifiers. You cannot do that with 5e. It does indeed break the mechanics and the flow of the game.
So what to do here? There is no fix rule that I would recommend but the following is what I would do:
Is something really hefty let us say a sandstorm or a blizzard then you can apply disadvantage to some of the characters actions but do not forget every advantage from what source ever cancels that one out in 5e. and disad is like a -5 which might not be the level at which you wanted to rate some nuisance.
So work around these things, e.g. Party is under a constant bane (-1d4 on attack etc) for some shadowplane.
Or : nonmagic weapons do -1d4 damage here or not getting a short rest in some shelter every 4 hours gives exhaustion

With DL as far as I can remember they had no cleric spells in the beginning but the blue crystal staff which worked like a spell store of cleric spells with charges recharging daily. You can absolutely have a cleric who got no spells at the beginning have such an artifact instead until he gets some spells the normal way without breaking 5e. You only have to adjust the artifact so it is not to powerful.

Dragonmarks / wild psionics instead of feats? no problems

Moon magic? easy, this one shouts for advantage/disadvantage for saves, spell attacks etc. np at all here because it is a temprory condition.

Cannot think about more atm. hope that helps
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Sure, but if you opened up the Eberron setting book, and one chapter said, "In Eberron, when you die, you respawn at the nearest Dragonmarked guildhouse," would that be a bridge too far for your interest in playing the game?

I'm trying to figure out how many gamers want 'standard' D&D and how many are up for trying weird gonzo s***.
You know what the "weird gonzo s***" is for D&D players?

A different system.

- D&D players running through a game of Call of C'thulu using the rules and mechanics of CoC is the "weird gonzo s***".

- Trying to figure out how to play FATE correctly by using Aspects, Fate Points and Creating Advantages and Outcomes is the "weird gonzo s***".

- Using the mechanics of GUMSHOE to solve mysteries.

- 7th Sea 2nd edition where it is just assumed that you succeed in almost everything you do and the dice are there merely to direct where you go and not whether or not you succeeded.

These are all the "weird gonzo s***" that D&D players have to decide and figure out whether or not they can handle it and want to play it.

But just playing D&D with a bunch of variant rules to lightly change the flavor? That's kids stuff. Nobody played through Tomb of Annihilation with its funky death rules and said "What?!? This isn't D&D!" Of course it was D&D. We all knew it was D&D and it at all times felt like D&D. And all we would need to know is how Champions is played and run to realize "Oh yeah... ToA was D&D, even with the new death rules."

If you make a D&D game that asks the players to use some variant rules to lightly change the flavor of how the game plays and runs... very few of them will dismiss the game out of hand because of the rules themselves. If they dismiss it, its either because the story that the rules are trying to facilitate just doesn't interest them, or because the person trying to run the game just isn't able to do it in such a way that the rules are enhancing that story. They just don't know how to incorporate the rules changes into effective gameplay.

But worrying that people won't recognize the game as D&D? Not something you really have to concern yourself about. Heck... that's why Mutants & Masterminds succeeded as a game... because people played it and immediately recognized it as a really strong Superheroes 3E D&D game. And if you can get people to buy in on playing D&D as a superheroes game? No amount of minor rules variants you could add to bog standard D&D will ever be an issue. :)
 
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MarkB

Legend
"Too far" is when you leave your players behind. The more changes you make, the more there is for players to keep track of, and the more comfort zones you step out of. And ultimately, by making a setting that's customised to your own sensibilities, you may have trouble selling the concept to everyone else in the group.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Very good topic, check out how I fought with my homebrew darksun conversion trying to be true to 2e flair so far. It covers things like weapon out of worse material, halfgiants, defiling and it really gave me headaches to find solutions which do not clash with 5e core mechanic.

I cannot tell you at which point the core mechanic absolutely breaks but I can tell you which things do not break the core mechanic:

Restriction of race, class/subclass, alignment and any combination of these do not break anything at all since they are pure fluff.

Restriction of equipment does not break anything if you still have viable options e.g. you need some decent weapon and armor for your fighter or you have to take that into account when building mobs and encounters.

Restriction of spells above 5th level should not break anything, it might shift the class balance a bit though, I would not recommend it for lower levels than 6th and up. Especially spells which allow magical movement and shenanigans can be cancelled without problem.

Otoh Restriction of spells as such does not break anything, if you cover the basics. Means there should eventually be some cure wounds spell for your cleric, but it is not needed that he can cast heat metal.
Again even if some will not believe me spells are fluff also, not basic mechanics.

Now some of the difficult things:

Environmental stuff like weather conditions, planar specialities etc. older editions used to cover this with a busload of pus and minus modifiers. You cannot do that with 5e. It does indeed break the mechanics and the flow of the game.
So what to do here? There is no fix rule that I would recommend but the following is what I would do:
Is something really hefty let us say a sandstorm or a blizzard then you can apply disadvantage to some of the characters actions but do not forget every advantage from what source ever cancels that one out in 5e. and disad is like a -5 which might not be the level at which you wanted to rate some nuisance.
So work around these things, e.g. Party is under a constant bane (-1d4 on attack etc) for some shadowplane.
Or : nonmagic weapons do -1d4 damage here or not getting a short rest in some shelter every 4 hours gives exhaustion

With DL as far as I can remember they had no cleric spells in the beginning but the blue crystal staff which worked like a spell store of cleric spells with charges recharging daily. You can absolutely have a cleric who got no spells at the beginning have such an artifact instead until he gets some spells the normal way without breaking 5e. You only have to adjust the artifact so it is not to powerful.

Dragonmarks / wild psionics instead of feats? no problems

Moon magic? easy, this one shouts for advantage/disadvantage for saves, spell attacks etc. np at all here because it is a temprory condition.

Cannot think about more atm. hope that helps
Very good topic, check out how I fought with my homebrew darksun conversion trying to be true to 2e flair so far. It covers things like weapon out of worse material, halfgiants, defiling and it really gave me headaches to find solutions which do not clash with 5e core mechanic.

I cannot tell you at which point the core mechanic absolutely breaks but I can tell you which things do not break the core mechanic:

Restriction of race, class/subclass, alignment and any combination of these do not break anything at all since they are pure fluff.

Restriction of equipment does not break anything if you still have viable options e.g. you need some decent weapon and armor for your fighter or you have to take that into account when building mobs and encounters.

Restriction of spells above 5th level should not break anything, it might shift the class balance a bit though, I would not recommend it for lower levels than 6th and up. Especially spells which allow magical movement and shenanigans can be cancelled without problem.

Otoh Restriction of spells as such does not break anything, if you cover the basics. Means there should eventually be some cure wounds spell for your cleric, but it is not needed that he can cast heat metal.
Again even if some will not believe me spells are fluff also, not basic mechanics.

Now some of the difficult things:

Environmental stuff like weather conditions, planar specialities etc. older editions used to cover this with a busload of pus and minus modifiers. You cannot do that with 5e. It does indeed break the mechanics and the flow of the game.
So what to do here? There is no fix rule that I would recommend but the following is what I would do:
Is something really hefty let us say a sandstorm or a blizzard then you can apply disadvantage to some of the characters actions but do not forget every advantage from what source ever cancels that one out in 5e. and disad is like a -5 which might not be the level at which you wanted to rate some nuisance.
So work around these things, e.g. Party is under a constant bane (-1d4 on attack etc) for some shadowplane.
Or : nonmagic weapons do -1d4 damage here or not getting a short rest in some shelter every 4 hours gives exhaustion

With DL as far as I can remember they had no cleric spells in the beginning but the blue crystal staff which worked like a spell store of cleric spells with charges recharging daily. You can absolutely have a cleric who got no spells at the beginning have such an artifact instead until he gets some spells the normal way without breaking 5e. You only have to adjust the artifact so it is not to powerful.

Dragonmarks / wild psionics instead of feats? no problems

Moon magic? easy, this one shouts for advantage/disadvantage for saves, spell attacks etc. np at all here because it is a temprory condition.

Cannot think about more atm. hope that helps

Rewrite the rules for Darksun, 2E did.
 

I would agree that there is no "too far" for me.

Settings that modify mechanics are great, and many great settings always have modified mechanics. As noted, the actual 5E books seem to encourage this attitude, too.

However, I suspect that Wotc have a more severe standard for official 5E products (ie not DMsguild or the like), which is that no rules or rules principles may be changed, nor any classes or subclasses banned by the setting itself. With the new Eberron it seems like they even discourage using popular optional rules for anything major.

As such I suspect we will not see any WotC settings with divergent rules, or not until a year or two before 6E when they decide to experiment.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Sure, but if you opened up the Eberron setting book, and one chapter said, "In Eberron, when you die, you respawn at the nearest Dragonmarked guildhouse," would that be a bridge too far for your interest in playing the game?

I'm trying to figure out how many gamers want 'standard' D&D and how many are up for trying weird gonzo s***.
I would absolutely be down for something like that.

One nice thing about Ravnica is that since it really has no history of being attached to any D&D tropes, and it's also a very high-magic setting, it gives you pretty free rein to go wild.
 


Slit518

Adventurer
I would like to add a setting can not overly mess with the core D&D mechanics, as long as there is still some semblance of D&D left.

My feeling on this, as long as the setting explains what is changed, and why it is changed in context to the setting.
 


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