D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Paul Farquhar]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the tone is super heroic while the aesthetics are Ren Faire.

That sounds accurate.

Although aesthetics tends to vary between settings - Ravenloft for example. FR is definitely Ren Faire though.

 

[Charlaquin]

That sounds accurate.

Although aesthetics tends to vary between settings - Ravenloft for example. FR is definitely Ren Faire though.

So does tone. I figured we were talking about the implied setting. Of course, at least in 5e FR is nearly synonymous with the implied setting.

 

[LordEntrails]

In modern D&D, fans don't usually accept anything less than full on squiring, long term combat tutors, years in the pits, or long military service to be a fighter.

AKA in modern D&D, the idea that any character who survives a death funnel can be a PC and take a class is ridiculous,

I gotta agree with @Paul Farquhar on his whole part of the discussion. What you describe is nothing like any of the tables I've played at over the last 45 years. It might fit yours, but it is certainly not universal.

 

[Minigiant]

Fluff isn't rules. In my experience D&D players have never payed much attention to fluff, not in the 1980s, not in the 2020s.

Characters still had to be appropriate to the setting.

My point is in 1980, if you take Bob the Baker's son and strap ringmail on him and give him a sword you could say he's a fighter.

In 2020, he isn't until you describe who and what trained him. Mostly because every class has features now. Someone has to teach Bob Fighting style, battlemaster manevers, edlritch knight spells, Arcane arrows, etc.

Everything being X levels of fighter, thief, priest, and mage is gone in modern D&D. A PC or NPC isn't an X until they meet the narrative criteriafr an X. This is the fuel for the "increase of classes" in 3e, 4e, and 5e.

"Johnny did no book learning. He forces magic straight out of his magical blood. He can't be a wizard. He's a sorcerer."

 

[Minigiant]

I gotta agree with @Paul Farquhar on his whole part of the discussion. What you describe is nothing like any of the tables I've played at over the last 45 years. It might fit yours, but it is certainly not universal.

That how the old school tables I sat at described it. And that's how OSR works and they are attempting to replicate the old.

So the idea came from somewhere in order to be replaced.

 

[overgeeked]

In my experience, old-school games (whether properly from back in the day or the newer ones trying to emulate that style) have zero issue with starting characters being peasants with pitchforks. When they say zero-to-hero they actually mean it. See the DCC RPG 0-level character funnel as an example. See also the list of secondary skills in the AD&D books. You made a living as a bowyer/fletcher, now you're a treasure hunter...go.

Modern games (and to an extent modern gamers) recoil from that hard. So much so that anything less than a novel-length epic backstory that would take any character in any system from level 1 to level 36...yet the "starting character" has, typically, 0 XP. They seem to entirely skip over the slight step up from starting as a peasant with a pitchfork, which is starting with implied training...they move right past that and want to start as the characters at the end of Lord of the Rings before they sit down and play a single session.

 

[Minigiant]

In my experience, old-school games (whether properly from back in the day or the newer ones trying to emulate that style) have zero issue with starting characters being peasants with pitchforks. When they say zero-to-hero they actually mean it. See the DCC RPG 0-level character funnel as an example. See also the list of secondary skills in the AD&D books. You made a living as a bowyer/fletcher, now you're a treasure hunter...go.

Modern games (and to an extent modern gamers) recoil from that hard. So much so that anything less than a novel-length epic backstory that would take any character in any system from level 1 to level 36...yet the "starting character" has, typically, 0 XP. They seem to entirely skip over the slight step up from starting as a peasant with a pitchfork, which is starting with implied training...they move right past that and want to start as the characters at the end of Lord of the Rings before they sit down and play a single session.

Not's not that dramatic. In modern D&D, you just don't start at zero. You start at two.

In modern D&D, the appropriate backstory is of a guy or gal fresh out of special training. A newly knighted squire. A aprrentice wizard leaving the magic school. The runner just departing from the ranger's treehouse. A second rung thief in a gang. A priest who just took their final Paladin or Cleric vows.

No peasents with pitchforks. No random oafs. No butchers with a cleaver and heavy apron.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think we’re focusing on different aspects of play. You’re talking about the PCs and their abilities and actions, and how adventures are set up to show them off. And I agree that D&D (and WoW, for that matter) is very super heroic in that sense. I was talking more about the general milieu; the eclectic demographics of the world(s), the chronological mishmash of fashion and technology, etc. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the tone is super heroic while the aesthetics are Ren Faire.

full on Avengers assemble end of the power scale has already been mentioned... d&d goes well past "super heroic" into a box of its own that shares more with one punch man's sarcastic take on dragonball or the extreme over the top isekai style power scales. It's telling that overlord & slayers tells a story that feels more like d&d5e than goblin slayer's old school feel

 

[overgeeked]

Not's not that dramatic. In modern D&D, you just don't start at zero. You start at two.

We must have different definitions of these numbers then. In 5E, characters start as superheroes.

In modern D&D, the appropriate backstory is of a guy or gal fresh out of special training. A newly knighted squire. A aprrentice wizard leaving the magic school. The runner just departing from the ranger's treehouse. A second rung thief in a gang. A priest who just took their final Paladin or Cleric vows.

For you perhaps. You should tell that to my players. I've run 5E from the playtest and yet to have a single player offer up a backstory anything shorter than 5-pages-long.

No peasents with pitchforks. No random oafs. No butchers with a cleaver and heavy apron.

More's the pity.

 

[Minigiant]

full on Avengers assemble end of the power scale has already been mentioned... d&d goes well past "super heroic" into a box of its own that shares more with one punch man's sarcastic take on dragonball or the extreme over the top isekai style power scales. It's telling that overlord & slayers tells a story that feels more like d&d5e than goblin slayer's old school feel

It's more tiers

1-4: Goblin Slayer, Princess Connect, Grimgar
5-10: DanMachi
11-15: Konosuba, Log Horizon, Fairy Tail
16+: Sword Art, Overlord