D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Thunderfoot]

I don't remember out and out cheating, but I remember a lot of 'rolling up lotsa PCs.' One really common thing was not rolling '3d6 in order', but 'rolling 3d6 6 times, and rearrange them as you please.' Even back in those olden days, you had players who liked particular classes, and letting them rearrange stats let that happen. I really don't remember much of 'roll in order and play what the dice say.'

3d6 in line, 3d6 arrange as you like, 3d6 12 times arrange the highest 6, 3d6 6 times in order, and roll 12 characters keep the one you like were all methods in the DMG (Pg 11, 2 col).

As an aside when did 4d6 drop the lowest show in print first. Unearthed Arcana or Oriental Adventures? (outside of Dragon, I mean).

 

[billd91]

As an aside when did 4d6 drop the lowest show in print first. Unearthed Arcana or Oriental Adventures? (outside of Dragon, I mean).

It’s Method 1, 1e Dungeon Masters Guide.

 

[Thunderfoot]

It’s Method 1, 1e Dungeon Masters Guide.

I just read that... how the hell did I miss that??? lol

 

[Azzy]

Objectively D&D changed not with video games per se. I would say the first inklings of something in the air was altered was 1992... I started to notice the change in art work from realistic to cartoonish, weapons went from swords to giant meat cleavers hefted over the shoulder. Armor went from medieval styled protection to pieces of stylized metal and capes billowing in the breeze while wearing headbands on spikey hair. In a word...Anime killed the feel of old style gritty D&D. Video games, which were also mostly made in Japan at the time, just followed suit.

Look back to 83 and the covers of the BECMI sets. Look at that greatsword on the cover of the Companion set in particular! Not realistic. Also, the earlier Erol Otis art—not realistic in the slightest (a lot of times just goofy).

Gone were the heroes that started as the everyman of pulp fantasy, replaced with wise cracking, loud-mouthed punks who were hot shots from birth. Gone were the myriad of unique fantasy worlds and in were homogenized fantasy settings. The state of mind of D&D is less the system and more the reflection of the players, community and society as a whole.

That never happened.

As they years progressed fewer and fewer players were influenced solely by the volume of literature they read and more and more influenced by the amount of pop culture they consumed. This morphing of the 'nerd culture' more than anything lead to the changes in the system. This is why older players tend to have the 'nostalgia' for the old ways and newer players call older players 'dinosaurs' or worse.

Fantasy "literature" of all eras has been "pop culture". That means nothing.

 

[Azzy]

Look at (most of) the drawings/art in the older (1e, 2e) books, MMs, and adventures: characters usually in abject fear of whatever was strangling them, chasing them, ready to pounce on them, or breath fire on them, usually with at least one character on the ground. (Take a look at Meazles artwork in the Fiend Folio, in particular)

Now look at most of the art in 5e: characters flying/jumping into the air INTO the face of the Giant that is 10 times their size, smiling, spells, shiny armor, weapons a smiting. The art has changed from setting the tone of dark and gritty survival to Avengers Assemble. (Look no further than the cover of the Player's Handbook).

This is a net gain afaic.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Wait.

Is that the secret?

Is D&D's weird one-sided hate on for video games and anime that both took their cues from D&D just plain 80's Edophobia?

 

[Monayuris]

"Back in my day we grinded 14 sessions before we had a lick of fun!"

Yeah, pass. I don't want to waste any more of my short life working in a game.

Why would you assume people didn't have fun?

I find it odd that people, you among others, choose create this narrative that classic edition games are just dirt farmers and drudgery and death.

Actually, I'm not sure now if things have really changed that much. I've had fun playing Basic D&D back when I was 10 and I have fun playing Basic D&D now.

I think an interesting poll for those who promote this narrative of older editions would be what age did you play older editions and when was the last time you played them.

My theory is that people who may be close to my age may have played them as children or teens and had bad experiences (because they were children and teens) and then never played again. They then carry that experience into their adult lives where they then moved on to modern rulesets as adults. They compare their current experiences with modern games as they are, now, to their previous experiences with classic games as they were, then.

At least in my own experiences, I had fun playing back when I was 10, but I also had experience with the drama and immaturity associated with that age.

After burning out from modern D&D (4e to be specific) I revisited the classic games. I looked at them as an adult, objectively and without bias of past experiences, and saw something so compelling that it has completely revitalized my rpg gaming life. I also now play those games quite frequently, with adults, and I don't see any of the bizarre narratives that tend to be espoused here.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Me, I’ve played that way for decades. I’m bored of it. I’d rather be surprised and roll with whatever the dice give me. Flex muscles I haven’t used in awhile. Play pretend and work my imagination. Have as much fun as I can with something I didn’t plan on. See what I can do within some limits. See how creative I can be. See how I can overcome the “flaws” the dice give me. It’s way more fun.

But that's you. Complaining that that's no longer the default for most modern games because its not what you want or some OS types want and dismissing people who do want control over their character is basically deciding that everyone should play like you.

 

[David Howery]

yeah, this thread is devolving into another edition bashing one....

I always felt lucky that I got into D&D when I was 20.... early enough that I was in there when it was all pretty new (1E days), but old enough to be out of the 'awkward child/teen' era. As for answering the question of 'how the game has changed over the decades'... well, 1E was loads of fun, but notorious for unclear and contradictory rules... plus annoying limits and caps on classes/races/genders. So when I look at the extremes of 1E vs. 5E (which I've read but never played), the main thing that stands out is 'people got into the game who knew how to properly write and organize the rules'.....

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Why would you assume people didn't have fun?

I find it odd that people, you among others, choose create this narrative that classic edition games are just dirt farmers and drudgery and death.

Actually, I'm not sure now if things have really changed that much. I've had fun playing Basic D&D back when I was 10 and I have fun playing Basic D&D now.

I think an interesting poll for those who promote this narrative of older editions would be what age did you play older editions and when was the last time you played them.

My theory is that people who may be close to my age may have played them as children or teens and had bad experiences (because they were children and teens) and then never played again. They then carry that experience into their adult lives where they then moved on to modern rulesets as adults. They compare their current experiences with modern games as they are, now, to their previous experiences with classic games as they were, then.

At least in my own experiences, I had fun playing back when I was 10, but I also had experience with the drama and immaturity associated with that age.

After burning out from modern D&D (4e to be specific) I revisited the classic games. I looked at them as an adult, objectively and without bias of past experiences, and saw something so compelling that it has completely revitalized my rpg gaming life. I also now play those games quite frequently, with adults, and I don't see any of the bizarre narratives that tend to be espoused here.

I am closing in on 50. I started playing DnD in the early 80s (when I was in grade school and the cartoon was on TV).

A few years back a.GM at my table was running a game wherey character was a Fighter from the Rules Cyclopedia. 1st level. He set the game in the Harn world.

One player lost a character to a single wolf in the first encounter. For the rest of the first level we avoided everything, only fighting when we had no chance of sneaking or hiding. We found just a couple bits of treasure since we avoided encounters.

When I hit 2nd level my fighter had a dagger some chain armor, and a single long stick I sharpened into a spear during the campaign.

Eventually we found ourselves in a town where my destitute fighter was sleeping outside because I was homeless and didn't have money to afford a common room in the inn.

At this point I tapped out and told the GM I wasn't interested in playing his misery filled campaign anymore. It's simply not fun to spend my 4 hours a week I get to RPG playing some poopy character that is less successful at life than the actual life I am seeking a break from.

If I want to get stomped on by a game I'll play a really difficult co-op board game. Then my fellow players can share my misery and we can lose and try again after an hour or two. If I am going to pretend to be someone I am not for funsies and entertainment I don't want that someone to be incompetent at their job...like say rolling up a 12STR fighter with a dagger and being afraid of a single wolf or random pit trap.