D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

I got it too. It simply does not apply. Getting it and agreeing with are two birds of a kind. Of course, someone in your camp will scream at genius for your example, especially if they can't come with a good one themselves. But it does not change that your example is not on par with mine. Find something that works. Not something that appears to be working.

Nothing is going to "work" for you because your premise seems predicated on the idea that fairness is related to the stakes involved, and I don't think it is. Something is just as unfair if the stakes are small or large, as long as you're forced to choose between two unpleasant options. You don't seem to agree with that, and as long as that's the case, as I said earlier, there's nothing much to be said, because our fundamental points of view are too different.
 

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I'm mostly arguing that it isn't necessarily power, and that often W wasn't three sets, but only one.
Well I wasn't just talking about pure combat power.

For example, there wasn't a way to play a smart warrior like a general without rolling a bunch of good rolls until 4e.

And yes,they usually was only one set fora W until the newset editions.
 

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Well I wasn't just talking about pure combat power.

For example, there wasn't a way to play a smart warrior like a general without rolling a bunch of good rolls until 4e.

And yes,they usually was only one set fora W until the newset editions.
Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Given how feats & PrCs had prerequisites that often required those it was actually of meaningful value.
 

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Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Given how feats & PrCs had prerequisites that often required those it was actually of meaningful value.
You missed part of the conversation.

The point is that some types of characters, for example warriors, are so dependent on their mandatory primary score and suggested secondary scores that you lack freedom in the classes without lucky rolls or cheating.

The 3.5 fighter was so dependent on STR, DEX, andCON just to work that you couldn't assign a good roll to INT without losing massive amounts of effectiveness.

It wasn't until 4e's swordmages and warlord sand 5e's magic subclaasses when the use of a good roll on INT over STR, DEX,or CON felt fair.
 

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but D&D has changed over the years in that it appeals to a broader audience than it did in the past. Back in the 80s and most of the 90s, my experience with D&D players is that they were overwhelmingly white and male. These days I see far more women playing D&D at my local game store than I ever did in the 90s. And while D&D players still seem to be predominantly white, at least from my own anecdotal experience, I do see more black players than I did when I was a teenager. Which isn't to say much because I didn't meet a black D&D player until 2001 and didn't have any black players in my game until 2017.
 


I should have "reply"ed to Husser's post wo you'd understand that my post was supposed to be a reply to his post about no one ever having rolled stats for NPCs. My mistake.

Look at the answer you got - however the dm wanted. Kinda blows the whole Npcs were made like pcs out of the water.
 


Oh Monty Haul, most of the early editions relied on magic items to increase a characters power and ability, since aside from a few items (ioun stones, manual of strength/fitness/whatever, wish) there was no way to permanently increase your stats. Whatever you started with was usually what you ended with. So between levels (more to hit), and magic items (ability to do more damage), magic items were part and parcel to the experience. Our characters (when we were much younger in 1e and 2e were dripping in magic items), but also had to deal with item/magic items saves when we failed saves versus damage spells, or falls, or criticals (roll a 1 to hit, roll save for your sword, on a 1 it breaks if its magical).
This was often offset by the NPCs, Monsters (intelligent ones at least), also using those items on us. Nothing worse than facing that monster or NPC wielding the Vorpal Sword that you so desperately wanted...

Magic items how have been "moved over" to PCs via class abilities, racial abilities, ASI's, and in some ways Feats. There is less of a "need" for magic items, aside from being able to affect creatures only affected by magic weapons. But likewise, every character now has the ability to cast some type of magic (or easy access to a damage cantrip via Feat), so even that isn't a major obstacle. To me, in 5th, Magic Items (permanent ones) would be rare, but powerful. What's the need for a wand of magic missiles when I can cast Firebolt or Eldritch Blast every 6 seconds all day long?) And because every character is just as capable as any other, you see less martials and rogues, and more parties made up of all or mostly casters or multiclassed casters, where in the older editions, the idea of a party of mages was a recipe for a short work day, and usually dead party after the first encounter or two. Magic items in 5e in adventures is part of that "legacy" of older editions, and players are always happy to get them and use them. Although in my last game (5e), one of my players continually griped about "lack of magic items", when his character had 3, and the party sheet had another 8 that no one took or cared to use. Their character sheet abilities were better in just about every instance).

On NPC's, I have pages and pages of pre-rolled NPC stats, using whatever method players used. If the players used 3d6 in order, so did I. 4d6 drop 1 six times, same for NPCs. That way I avoided situations where NPCs had better stats overall than the players because I was selecting them, and caused me to think about what that meant for the NPC in terms of his spells, abilities, and magic items. Now, of course, that was usually for NPCs who would be recurring, or were mentors, or the like. Not every Tom, Dick, and Mary villager had stats, though I could grab a row from my notebook if I needed to. And then once NPC generators became available, those would fill in for that quick NPC write-up.
 


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