How Have You Houseruled Wizards in 3.x to Be the Masters of the Universe Once Again?

[Remathilis]

Maybe look at OSRIC or C&C and see if there are some solutions for you there. Both are D20 based OGL games emulating AD&D with both rules and flavor.

I agree. If you want AD&D-inspired Uberness without a lot of headache/house rules, go get a copy of Castles & Crusades

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I will say I run my games much like you are saying
No magic walmarts
No spell level caps
Save or dies still around
I mostly use 3.0 spells


The games tend to be more like the old days and I really have had no issue with it

 

[joethelawyer]

I agree. If you want AD&D-inspired Uberness without a lot of headache/house rules, go get a copy of Castles & Crusades

i am actually using the castles and crusades phb as a guide as i decide what spells to put back. the only thing is, C&C imposes the old level caps for HD rolling like AD&D did, so it is hard to determine a balance of damage done.

Ok, so you houseruled the uberness out of 3.x wizzies and want to reflavor them with their old AD&D uberness?

Wouldn't it have been easier to just run an AD&D campaign instead? (not trying to be snarky)

you're right it would be. unfortunately no one else wants to. i even tried to get them to take a look at C&C and no one was interested. they like the skills and feats of 3.0, etc. its been a long-fought campaign to get the 5 pages of houserules in place which make it more ike AD&D.

Ugh, I had a big long explanation typed up, but I lost it when I got auto logged off.

The short form is this:

My recommendation is to double all damage done by spells simply by doubling the number of dice that you roll so that a 10th level fireball does 20d6. Plus, make the DCs of all spells equal to 17+1/5 levels of the caster. (or, alternatively, if you want Int to matter more than it did in older editions and to make the game REALLY frontloaded, make it 15+stat modifier)

Since you've already eliminated stat boosters, this should pretty much do it by itself without any changes being needed.

the dc's we use are 10 + level of the spell + ability modifier +1 for every 3 levels of the caster.


thx

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

This is how I "fixed" direct damage spells:
--Damage increases geometrically, just like monster hp so often does. For example a 1st-2nd level DD spell deals (1d4+1) damage per level, while a 3rd-4th level DD spell deals (1d4+2) damage per level, etc...
--All CL caps equal (spell level X 2) + 3, because low level spells need to be pointless in order to maintain balance.
--Area and range increase at each spell level, and casters don't need a PrC or feat to exclude allies from their areas.
--A single DD spell can be cast as a bolt, a ball, a burst or a cone, as the caster chooses at the time of casting.
--As with all my other revamped spells, max spell level is 10 rather than 9.
--Damage boosting metamagic feats are banned, because DD are now "just right."

Hope that helps,
TS

 

[Runestar]

I didn't bother with damage spells because the party already has a readily accessible source of direct damage - the party fighter (who has a comparative advantage here since he does not need to expend slots). So it makes little sense to compete with him in this aspect.

Battlefield control spells are fun, because they weaken the foes, making them easier for your party to take down, and let them shine. Instead of me going time stop+5 delayed blast fireballs to take down the dragon, leaving the rest of the party looking on and feeling generally useless, I just play a support role. This way, the party rogue and fighter can still get their knocks in, and feel like they have contributed something to the party.

 

[joethelawyer]

This is how I "fixed" direct damage spells:
--Damage increases geometrically, just like monster hp so often does. For example a 1st-2nd level DD spell deals (1d4+1) damage per level, while a 3rd-4th level DD spell deals (1d4+2) damage per level, etc...
--All CL caps equal (spell level X 2) + 3, because low level spells need to be pointless in order to maintain balance.
--Area and range increase at each spell level, and casters don't need a PrC or feat to exclude allies from their areas.
--A single DD spell can be cast as a bolt, a ball, a burst or a cone, as the caster chooses at the time of casting.
--As with all my other revamped spells, max spell level is 10 rather than 9.
--Damage boosting metamagic feats are banned, because DD are now "just right."

Hope that helps,
TS

those are some great ideas man. thank you.

 

[joethelawyer]

so here's what i came up with----lemme know what you think:

[FONT=&quot]Fireball and Lightning Bolt[/FONT][FONT=&quot] changed to Fire, Lightning, Acid, Sonic, Cold Attack. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 separate spells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cone of Cold no longer exists.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3rd level spell[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reflex save for half[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Spell resistance applies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Choose Ball, Burst, Cone or Bolt at time of casting.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All of them do 1d6 +1 level of the caster damage, no level caps.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ball:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range 400 ft plus 40 ft/level[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Area of effect 20 foot radius plus 1 foot per caster level.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Burst: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range is centered on you spreading outward in a circle. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Area of effect 20 feet radius plus1 foot per level.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bolt:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range for a 5 foot wide bolt is100 feet plus 10 feet/level, for a 10 foot wide bolt is 50 feet plus 5 feet/level, starting at the caster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Area of effect = same as range.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cone:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range is 25 feet plus 5 feet every 2 levels[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Area of effect is as a cone. Shape is determined as color spray graphic for shape of cone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Burning Hands[/FONT][FONT=&quot] changed to a Fire, Lightning, Acid, Sonic, or Cold Fan Attack. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 separate spells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1st level spell.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Damage is 1d4 plus 1 per caster level. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No save.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Magic Resistance applies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range/Area is a 120 degree fan shaped area, radiating outward from the caster’s hands, at 5 feet plus 1 foot per caster level.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Magic Missile[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Same as per PHB except that no level limit on number of missiles.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Delayed Blast Fireball[/FONT][FONT=&quot] changed to Delayed Blast Fire, Acid, Cold, Sonic, Lightning.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 separate spells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7th level spell[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Damage is 1d6 plus 2 per level of caster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Range 400 ft plus 40 ft/level[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Area of effect 20 foot radius plus 1 foot per caster level.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Chain Lightning[/FONT][FONT=&quot] changed to Chain Fire, Acid, Cold, Sonic, Lightning.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 separate spells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6th level spell.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Damage is 1d6 plus 1 per level of caster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All else is same per PHB[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Meteor Swarm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Identical to PHB except there are 5 separate spells, one for each energy type of Fire, Lightning, Sonic, Cold, Acid.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[tenkar]

i am actually using the castles and crusades phb as a guide as i decide what spells to put back. the only thing is, C&C imposes the old level caps for HD rolling like AD&D did, so it is hard to determine a balance of damage done.





you're right it would be. unfortunately no one else wants to. i even tried to get them to take a look at C&C and no one was interested. they like the skills and feats of 3.0, etc. its been a long-fought campaign to get the 5 pages of houserules in place which make it more ike AD&D.





the dc's we use are 10 + level of the spell + ability modifier +1 for every 3 levels of the caster.


thx

Treebore (our resident C&C Advocate) has an interesting set of house rules that "kinda sorta" slip feats and skills into C&C... you may want to send him a private message here or on the Trolls' boards... the last version I saw him post over there was from March '08. (i wouldn't be surprised if i missed an update - Treebore "borrows from many sources it seems... heh)

Another set of house rules is here: http://castles-and-crusades.wikispaces.com/file/view/Lost+City+of+Barakus+C&C+House+Rules.pdf

Nice little tweak for casters in a 3.x way of things in the above houserules.

Damn... all this posting has gotten me hungry to start a C&C game... tweaked with bits and pieces of the above I think

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

the dc's we use are 10 + level of the spell + ability modifier +1 for every 3 levels of the caster.

My concern about this is that it means that DCs at 20th level casting 9th level spells with a grey elf wizard who started with 20 int and put all his points into int means that they have DCs of 32. The average 20th level fighter with no magic items has +15 to Fort saves, +7 to Reflex saves, and +6 to Will saves(each of them would be 5 higher if you are allowing cloaks of resistance).

This means that if there is a save or die spell that is 9th level that targets them they likely need a natural 20 to succeed. If it targets Fort then they need a 17 or higher to save against it.

Contrast this to the 2e save system where at 20th level as a fighter you need a 3 to save against all death magic spells.

Plus, a 20th level fighter in 2e would need a 6 to save against a fireball. The caster listed above means the fighter needs a 19 in this system.

If you want wizards to be as powerful as they were in 2e, you need to factor in the fact that at that high a level, most of their spells had no effect at all due to the ease of making saving throws. Using my method, the above fighter would need a 14 to save against the fireball and a 6 to save against a Fort save or die spell. Which is much closer to the 6 and 3 respectively that they'd need in 2e. With magic items, this probably balances out to about the same.

However, I'd still suggest the doubling of all damage rather than a geometric progression. Hitpoints are not geometric. They go up faster than that due to con bonuses. They WERE geometric in 1/2e, but that's actually what causes the direct damage to hitpoint problem in 3e(in addition to toughness, improved toughness, and max hitpoints at first level). If a creature has a Con of 12 at 1st level and uses d8s for hitpoints, it will have about 31 hitpoints at 5th level but 64 at 10th level likely. Using a purely geometric progression would mean that they'd only have 54. Monsters in 3e either have higher Con bonuses the higher CR they are, or they just have that many more hitdice, which increases the effectiveness of the Con bonus they already have.

If the idea is to have a spell do about the same percentage of a monster's hitpoints as it did in 1/2e, then you need to account for that bonus. When I lost the details in the previous post, it had basically said that hitpoints had increased amongst classes by between 1.5 to 2 times. I reasoned that if you doubled the damage on a fireball that did the same damage that it did in 1/2e, then you'd end up with a fireball that was just as dangerous as it was in previous editions. But only if you keep saving throws about the same as they were in previous editions to make sure monsters took half damage about as often.

It works slightly better than using 1d6+3 per level since in 1e/2e, it was certainly possible to roll 10 damage against a creature at level 10 with a fireball that did negligible damage to it. Adding a static number guarantees damage a little too much. It means that the minimum damage is 40. Which is enough to kill a 10th level Wizard without a Con bonus. Versus minimum 20 damage with the double dice method which won't even knock said Wizard unconscious. Which is closer to the "feel" of spells from 1/2e.

Other than the doubling of damage and changing the DC of spells, most of the spells function very similar to the way they did in 2e. I, personally, wouldn't change them almost at all other than this.

 

[Derulbaskul]

Magic-users in 1E and 2E were really that good because of the insane initiative system(s) and the ease with which a spell could be disrupted. They only rocked with good preparation otherwise they were toast. Wizards in 3E and 3.5E on the other hand are pretty good thanks to, inter alia, casting defensively/concentration checks... but they don't hold a candle to a druid on the warpath!