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How I got rid of the 5-minute adventure day and nova-resting

Harr

First Post
(This is a post I just made in the WotC boards in answer to question, I thought it merited a thread over here too, since people here usually have good ideas that have improved my game by leaps and bounds these past few weeks... so consider this a "feedback and ideas welcome" kind of thing :) )

***

This is what I do to get around this stuff. It's a little meta-game-y, but my players all grew up playing stuff like Baldur's Gate and Final Fantasy so it's pretty much the way they expect it to work.

Basically what I do is give them quests. They look in the wanted posters, a few people are offering jobs (I prep about three of these for every game session), they go talk to the person that interests them the most, and she tells them what the quest is, and what reward she's offering.

The thing is, I always try to make the quest something time-sensitive. Examples... one time they had to hunt down a fleeing assassin through a forest, another time they had to find a rogue who had stolen an amulet that controls the iron golem that defends the town, another time they had to retreive the skull of a lich before a warlock that sought it managed to summon it. Stuff like that. Very "This is your mission should you choose to accept it" kinda stuff.

Now, each "quest" is 3, 4, or 5 encounters long. Each quest is actually a "day" in game terms. And, just like a party short-rests automatically after finishing an encounter, they also long-rest automatically after finishing a quest. They know through previous agreement that they cannot long-rest in the middle of a quest, because of a quest's time-sensitive nature.

Also, I've made it clear through just talking before with the players, that once you start a quest, that's it; if you decide to leave in the middle, well, you fail the quest. The assassin would get away, the rogue would attack the city with her new golem, the warlock would complete his lich-summon ritual. You can either see the quest through to the end and receive the bonus reward for completing it, or you can go in, take what XP and treasure you can, and skip out, miss out on the bonus XP and rewards, and the world will go through the consequences of you having failed the quest. They can go back to the same dungeon again, but now the opportunity has passed and whatever quest or event was going to happen there is lost.

This can actually not be a bad thing, for instance, if the warlock succeeds in summoning his lich? Well, now there's a lich loose in the world doing all kinds of mayhem, and that just serves as an excuse for many new quests to go on in the future (this is actually the situation in our game right now). So it's a balance between success and failures, with the failures giving rise to more opportunities for success.

Another thing that can happen is that they decide to abadon the quest and go for something else. For example, in the "rogue who stole the golem's amulet" quest, at the last minute I had the rogue offer the party that if they let her go and pretended they had killed her, she would be in their debt, and she would put her new golem at their service, and they could use it every now and again to help them in tough fights. They actually agreed to that!! And so they failed the quest - but now they have a strong and grateful ally they can seek help from sometimes.

Anyway, the point is that from the point that the party becomes aware of a certain dungeon or temple or whatever, there's a certain "bonus" to completing it in one shot. They can either follow through and succeed in what they need to do and be heroes, or they can be cowardly/selfish and retreat to lick their wounds and see what happens.

This has worked very well for us, nowadays I don't even think of this type of problem any more, cause it's taken care of. But like I say, this has a video-game-y feel to it and it might not be to some people's tastes. It depends on how much simulation or realism you want in your game.
 

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delericho

Legend
But like I say, this has a video-game-y feel to it and it might not be to some people's tastes. It depends on how much simulation or realism you want in your game.

It doesn't seem particularly video-gamey, especially if you assemble a few 'super-quests' - quests that are 10 or 15 encounters in length, but allow one or two additional rests before declaring a failure.

Where it becomes problematic, though, is that very often there isn't a fair time limit that can be imposed - the classic dungeon exploration mission, for example, would seem to allow the party to proceed at pretty much their own pace. I'm sure there are other examples.

Oh, there's also the problem that if the dice fall 'wrong' in the first encounter of the quest, the party may simply find themselves unable to complete the quest, regardless of how well they play. But I suppose that's just an inevitable reality of using dice at all.

I do like your idea, though, and may well adopt something similar for my next 3e campaign, whenever that may be.
 

Janx

Hero
this is not a bad idea, and there are elements to it that can be incorporated into existing play.

The most basic point, is that time matters. The longer a party takes, the more bad happens, less XP, etc.

Thus, if while writing the quest/adventure, you determine the basic amount of time for a party to travel, and do the fights, if the party takes longer than that, consequences occur:
bad guy moves on
bad guy gets reinforcements/entrenched (more bad guys)
bad guy succeeds at plan, big badness happens

If it gets down to it, the party fails when the bad guy succeeds at his goal, and they don't get XP.
If the bad guy gets reinforcements, the party doesn't get more XP. This punishes them for taking too long (more fights and risk, less reward)

If you explain to the party, that unlike a videogame, you can't take all the time in the world to complete a quest. There's a timetable, and while flexible for the sake of fun, if the stop and rest after every fight, the bad guy will win.

The key to this is to instill a sense of urgency. A mission to go clear out goblin cave, isn't all that urgent. A mission to intercept a goblin messenger at Goblin's Crossing, otherwise a new alliance will form has some urgency. The party has to get there before the messenger comes through. Or they have to chase and catch-up. If they take too long, they can do neither, and they fail.
 

Janx

Hero
It doesn't seem particularly video-gamey, especially if you assemble a few 'super-quests' - quests that are 10 or 15 encounters in length, but allow one or two additional rests before declaring a failure.

Where it becomes problematic, though, is that very often there isn't a fair time limit that can be imposed - the classic dungeon exploration mission, for example, would seem to allow the party to proceed at pretty much their own pace. I'm sure there are other examples.

Oh, there's also the problem that if the dice fall 'wrong' in the first encounter of the quest, the party may simply find themselves unable to complete the quest, regardless of how well they play. But I suppose that's just an inevitable reality of using dice at all.

I do like your idea, though, and may well adopt something similar for my next 3e campaign, whenever that may be.


I think part of the benefit of the "time-crunch" adventure is that you get away from the traditional dungeon crawl, where what happens and how long doesn't tend to matter.

Additionally, I'm for adventures with fewer, but more meaningful encounters. Fiction works that way, why shouldn't D&D? It'll make fights more epic...
 

SHARK

First Post
Greetings!

Well, I suppose some might consider such a style to be *video-gamey*--however, besides being fun for your group, there are at least two other strong benefits from your DM style;

(1) The expanding adventures and plots, based on whether the group succeeds or fails in a quest; This means essentially that you, as the DM, are never in a shortage for whipping up plots and adventures; and the group gains the benefit of always having options for a variety of interesting--and relevant--adventures to pursue!

(2) Consequences and Dynamism--by having the quests somewhat timed, and then branching to other quests based on success or failure, the campaign enjoys a good level of dynamism, of consequences for the group's actions and choices, and an organic mechanic for other individuals and environments, towns, churches, etc to develop and grow in an organic manner, increasing the immersion factor and sense of realism and depth to the campaign!

Bravo! my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

delericho

Legend
Additionally, I'm for adventures with fewer, but more meaningful encounters. Fiction works that way, why shouldn't D&D?

Good question. However...

It'll make fights more epic...

Typically, the way to "make the fights more epic" in published adventures (for 3e) has been to boost the challenge of the opponents, such that the PCs are taken to their limit with every encounter. That is, the typical EL has been party level + 2 or 3.

The consequence of this, unfortunately, is that the group have to nova simply to come out ahead, which means they have to rest more often... and so the 15 minute adventuring day becomes worse.

Will groups be satisfied with five encounters of EL equal to party level making up a quest? Or will they miss the edge-of-the-seat excitement that comes from every encounter being a potential TPK? Who can say?
 

(This is a post I just made in the WotC boards in answer to question, I thought it merited a thread over here too, since people here usually have good ideas that have improved my game by leaps and bounds these past few weeks... so consider this a "feedback and ideas welcome" kind of thing :) )

***


This can actually not be a bad thing, for instance, if the warlock succeeds in summoning his lich? Well, now there's a lich loose in the world doing all kinds of mayhem, and that just serves as an excuse for many new quests to go on in the future (this is actually the situation in our game right now). So it's a balance between success and failures, with the failures giving rise to more opportunities for success.

Yes. This can be awesome. As a matter of fact, since the party has the opportunity for multiple time sensitive quests at the same time and must choose one to be priority there will be others that go by the wayside which can have rippling effects across the campaign and certainly lead to bigger adventures later.

I am a big fan of PC determined goals and thier completion as the biggest measure of campaign rewards. :)

The timeline doesn't always have to be realistic either. As the main characters of the campaign, the PC's will constantly asked to do the impossible and often they actually do.
 

Silly question on my part: You offer your group a few quests each time, and each quest you offer them seems to have a pretty important time factor in it (has to be done in a day or it fails). When the characters choose a quest, what happens to the two other quests? Do other NPC adventurer groups finish them, or do you consider them automatically failed?

AR
 

Harr

First Post
Silly question on my part: You offer your group a few quests each time, and each quest you offer them seems to have a pretty important time factor in it (has to be done in a day or it fails). When the characters choose a quest, what happens to the two other quests? Do other NPC adventurer groups finish them, or do you consider them automatically failed?

The answer to this is "depends on what makes an interesting story!" :)

For example, in our very first session in which I started doing this, there were a few quests, one was to chase the assassin through the woods, one was to assist a wizard in a demon-binding ritual, and one was to escort a cute little healer girl to resurrect a fallen captain in the middle of a war with orcs, and defend her while she completed the Raise Dead ritual.

The players immediately went "Escort?? Healer?! Laaaaaamme!!" And chose the assassin-hunting quest.

Well... happens that that healer was forced to go on her mission alone... and hasn't been heard from since. I casually mentioned this in the last session. I haven't decided what's going to happen with her yet... she may need rescuing from somewhere... OR she may come back to the city as some kind of violated undead horror type thing. Who knows? That's the fun!

Other quests though, might keep for a few sessions, with the situation getting worse, OR I might just drop them out of the story altogether, cause they get to be too many to keep track of. This happened with one particular quest that I thought would be SO AWESOME, it was going to be them dressing up as nobles and infiltrating a noble's mansion duraing a party to break out a thief from the dungeons there. The party took a look at the quest and went MEH. Weren't interested :(

So I just let that particular situation fade out, maybe I'll use it again some day. But at least I got to keep the game focused on what's fun for everybody, without forcing what's just for just me.
 
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Silly question on my part: You offer your group a few quests each time, and each quest you offer them seems to have a pretty important time factor in it (has to be done in a day or it fails). When the characters choose a quest, what happens to the two other quests? Do other NPC adventurer groups finish them, or do you consider them automatically failed?

AR

I don't know about the OP but I like the idea that the PC's can't possibly be everywhere at once and that some problems get nipped before they become a major catastrophe and others continue to develop into problems so big ( war, famine, dogs and cats living together, ect) that a great deal more effort is needed to correct them.

I like this approach for a couple reasons. For one, it really stresses the fact that heroes are in short supply and that the world is a dangerous place. One little band of fortune seekers cannot hope to make everything thats wrong with the world go away.

Second, if low level adventurers were able to handle every single problem before it got worse then what are more powerful adventurers needed for? ;)
 

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