D&D 5E (2014) How is 5E like 4E?

[Minigiant]

Part of the issue is that exploration doesn't even attempt to scan with tier.

Except in 4e. And when Level up is finished.

D&D pushes level 1 obstacles on you from level 1 to 20.
There's no Lexicon of Hazards.

 

[Undrave]

No sane person would be an adventurer. D&D is a game about insane adventurers. They're looking for the story. The general advice of "please make an adventurer" comes to mind, i.e. please make a D&D character that's going to engage with the things D&D is about.

I think that's not the same thing at all. You can be willing to take risk to accomplish a certain goal (fame, fortune, glory, helping people) and still not take additional risk on top for no payoffs! Heck, the Danger Maze will slow you down!

Adventuring is like doing extreme sports, it's all about controlling risks and working with your own limits, it's not about being a dumbass who will take risk for no reason!

An adventurer can look at a patrol of Orc and think "Oh yeah, we can TOTALLY take 'em on!" but also think "Better let the Bard put them to sleep so they don't alert their allies". That's just being sensible.

 

[Undrave]

That's why we have a fighter, duh.

Don't eat the Dwarf.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Don't eat the Dwarf.

The reason we don't let him do anything but attack is to keep him tender.

 

[overgeeked]

And let's not forget to think from the in-universe character's point of view: No sane person will take the dangerous maze!

No sane person would go into a dungeon. No sane person would fight a dragon. Yet that's exactly what the game is about. So clearly your average D&D character isn't a sane person.

It might be fun for the PLAYER but the CHARACTER isn't gonna have a good time fighting for their life!!

You shouldn't talk about extreme sports if you're going to attack extreme sports people like that. Firefighters, police, military people. They all seem to really rather enjoy risking their lives and doing all those extreme things. D&D characters are those kinds of people. They're not armchair quarterbacks...that's literally us as players. Playing a character who's hyper-cautious is playing a character that's basically a player stand-in. PCs are adrenaline junkie who're out scouring dungeons and fighting dragons for a living. They are the D&D equivalent to extreme sports people, firefighters, police, and military. It's literally their job. That they chose to do. Instead of staying home where it's safe and warm. They choose to train up, invest in the gear, and go delve dungeons. Playing them as hyper-cautious literally goes against their character and the game's assumptions.

You shouldn't have to actively fight against your character's survival instinct to have fun!

Don't confuse your survival instinct with your characters and you'll have a lot more fun.

And 5e let's you dump gold straight into HP with potions

Right. So the characters live in a world were healing is cheap and plentiful. They should be less risk adverse, not more.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Firefighters, police, military people. They all seem to really rather enjoy risking their lives and doing all those extreme things.

ideally these people aren't risking their lives for 'enjoyment'.

 

[overgeeked]

ideally these people aren't risking their lives for 'enjoyment'.

Look at a cross-section of their hobbies some time. The vast majority are adrenaline junkies.

 

[Neonchameleon]

No sane person would go into a dungeon. No sane person would fight a dragon.

Define sane. People will take fairly serious risks for money or to defend their families - and we don't claim that no sane person would ever e.g. become a soldier.

The big question is more "why don't they retire?" than why start. And the simple answer is they are good at it and love the rush.

 

[Undrave]

You shouldn't talk about extreme sports if you're going to attack extreme sports people like that. Firefighters, police, military people. They all seem to really rather enjoy risking their lives and doing all those extreme things.

That's a ridiculous point. Firefighters train to minize risks. They don't rush into a burning building through the hardest way in for FUN! They go through the most efficient and safest route possible to save lives!

Firefighters still value their own lives and they still have to evaluate risk all the time.

Extreme sports enthusiasts still wear protective gear JUST IN CASE.

So yeah. If those tools are available IN-UNIVERSE and your character is aware of them? NOT using them would be a stupid decision on their part. Do your characters go into dark caves without a source of light because it's more fun?! No! They grab ask the Wizard to use his Light cantrip, or they grab a lantern, a torch or even a candle. If they have a Bag of Holding you better believe they'll stuff it full of rations, water and ammunition, even if you think micromanaging that stuff is more fun.

 

[overgeeked]

That's a ridiculous point. Firefighters train to minize risks. They don't rush into a burning building through the hardest way in for FUN! They go through the most efficient and safest route possible to save lives!

You're mixing up two different things. Yes, they train to minimize risk on the job...and their hobbies are typically quite extreme. So for a lot of them, it's fun to feel the adrenaline rush of extreme sports. And training to survive running into a burning building doesn't preclude the adrenaline rush they get from running into a burning building. Just because they're trained to minimize risk on the job doesn't mean it's not also fun or that they don't take risks for the fun of it. Both are simultaneously true: they minimize risks on the job and take risks because they're fun on and off the job.

Firefighters still value their own lives and they still have to evaluate risk all the time.

Not enough to avoid intentionally running into a building that's on fire.

Extreme sports enthusiasts still wear protective gear JUST IN CASE.

They're also legally required to. Take a look at YouTube and all the dumb crap people get up to without safety gear. Jackass is a famous example. Extreme sports have sponsors and insurance to worry about.

So yeah. If those tools are available IN-UNIVERSE and your character is aware of them? NOT using them would be a stupid decision on their part. Do your characters go into dark caves without a source of light because it's more fun?! No! They grab ask the Wizard to use his Light cantrip, or they grab a lantern, a torch or even a candle. If they have a Bag of Holding you better believe they'll stuff it full of rations, water and ammunition, even if you think micromanaging that stuff is more fun.

You seem to be confusing things a bit. Risking your life is inherent in extreme sports. They wear protective gear to minimize accidents and because they're legally required to. But death is always a possibility. Bungee jumping, base jumping, skydiving, etc. And yes, the extreme sports people wear protective gear...kinda like how adventurers wear armor...but they still willingly, regularly, and intentionally risk their lives for fun and profit. Now. Take away the insurance companies and sponsors. What would extreme sports look like? A lot closer to Jackass and the folks on YouTube. And D&D adventurers.

And we're not talking about real life. We're talking about elfgames. The characters who are D&D adventurers are adrenaline junkies who go into dark and dangerous places to murder whatever they find there, loot the place, and haul the treasure back to town to make themselves rich. They're not well-adjusted, clear-headed, right-thinking folks. They literally risk their lives for fun and profit. That's incompatible with "taking the safest route possible".

That low INT fighter isn't going to be wearing the best armor all the time. They're going to Leeroy Jenkins a lot of monsters. Sure, they'll die. But they're also too dumb to realize how much risk is involved. Again, it's about role-playing the character. I'm willing to bet your INT is higher than the 8 INT fighter. You are aware of the risks...that fighter probably isn't. So to role-play that INT 8 fighter you can't be overly worried about the risks. That's literally metagaming.