How is a vampire possibly worth +8 LA?

[Rystil Arden]

Well, it isn't all that great, since you can't control them. I suppose you could "herd" them, though, which could cause amazingly horrible devistation to... a contenent. But, then you'd be in trouble unless you could get away really far yourself.

Well, compare to Create Undead. It is a 6th level spell. It takes one hour to cast. It costs 50 gold per HD. It creates one uncontrolled Ghoul at level 11. If it allowed Wights, it would probably be at level 12, costing 200 gold. Enervation costs nothing and is level 4. It takes a standard action, and it also is useful offensively. Allowing Enervation to create a Wight makes the Create Undead spell ridiculous.

 

[Sledge]

No. High LA are reserved for creatures that are either extraordinarily powerful and needs them to prevent everyone from wanting to play them. Or for creatures having special powers that can completely up a game if taken advantage of to the fullest (which at least some players are able to do).

The vampire is of the second kind.

I disagree quite strongly. Every power the vampire has is accessible to the party long before a vampire could join the party. Vampire LA is a deterant.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I disagree quite strongly. Every power the vampire has is accessible to the party long before a vampire could join the party. Vampire LA is a deterant.

Not Create Spawn. The best you can do (disregarding the ridiculous Wight rule that seems to be an oversight that nobody noticed) by that level is create Ghasts in a laborious hour-long process that costs 200 gold (and this is a new power gained at level 12).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not Create Spawn. The best you can do (disregarding the ridiculous Wight rule that seems to be an oversight that nobody noticed) by that level is create Ghasts in a laborious hour-long process that costs 200 gold (and this is a new power gained at level 12).

9th Level, Summon Undead V and Improved Turning. Summon a Shadow, have it Str-drain a commoner to death. Summon spell expires, summoned Shadow disappears, commoner rises as a Shadow within 1d4 rounds. Rebuke it - with an effective turning level of 10, you can Command it (3HD, +2 Turn resistance). You now have a pet Shadow. Set it to draining more commoners, who will rise as Shadows under the command of your pet.

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, by that logic, you could claim that 'every power the vampire has is accessible to the party' because you could just rebuke and command a vampire, which is valid, if an unusual argument.

 

[Sledge]

Any free willed spawn are obviously not a benefit to the vampire, so only the hdx2 limit of spawn are allowed. Of those rare largish spawn, there is a total of 10 hd at cr13. Now an evil cleric has already been making undead for a few levels at this point. Some of which will be weaker, while others stronger, but in all the create spawn ability is nothing special. Even as an army builder it is unlikely, because every creature would need to have died due to con drain.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Any free willed spawn are obviously not a benefit to the vampire, so only the hdx2 limit of spawn are allowed. Of those rare largish spawn, there is a total of 10 hd at cr13. Now an evil cleric has already been making undead for a few levels at this point. Some of which will be weaker, while others stronger, but in all the create spawn ability is nothing special. Even as an army builder it is unlikely, because every creature would need to have died due to con drain.

Why are they not a benefit to the vampire? If your goal is to destroy the BBEG's stronghold and you leave as many peasants as you can feast that are about to turn into uncontrolled hungry spawn at his doorstep in the abandoned Mountains of Doom, where else are they going to go for food?

 

[Artoomis]

You don't think a sorcerer enervating someone to death or a construct slaughtering innocent 1st level evil commoners to be a horrible creature?

-Hyp.

No, I don't. Not within the context of page 293 of the DMG which talks about getting struck in melee by such creatures.

 

[Grog]

Why are they not a benefit to the vampire? If your goal is to destroy the BBEG's stronghold and you leave as many peasants as you can feast that are about to turn into uncontrolled hungry spawn at his doorstep in the abandoned Mountains of Doom, where else are they going to go for food?

And how is the vampire going to get all these about-to-rise peasants out to the stronghold in the abandonded Mountains of Doom? The logistics of moving that many dead bodies out to the middle of nowhere and burying them all (remember they have to be buried before they can rise) are pretty daunting, especially for someone who can't operate in daylight.

And in any case, it doesn't matter, because all those hungry spawn can't enter the BBEG's stronghold without an invitation. So he simply watches in amusement as the spawn flail around helplessly for a while before heading off in other directions in search of food (there may not be any around, but the spawn don't know that).

 

[Rystil Arden]

And how is the vampire going to get all these about-to-rise peasants out to the stronghold in the abandonded Mountains of Doom? The logistics of moving that many dead bodies out to the middle of nowhere and burying them all (remember they have to be buried before they can rise) are pretty daunting, especially for someone who can't operate in daylight.

And in any case, it doesn't matter, because all those hungry spawn can't enter the BBEG's stronghold without an invitation. So he simply watches in amusement as the spawn flail around helplessly for a while before heading off in other directions in search of food (there may not be any around, but the spawn don't know that).

Not if they are buried inside.