How Is There Still PCGen?

[mattcolville]

I take it you (and the others who have claimed PCGen is slow and has a bad interface) haven't bothered to actually try the new versions.

Lord.

A week ago I downloaded, not only the newest version of PCGen, but the newest version of JRE. The app is slow. Slow slow slow. I click on a selection and, roughly 5 to 7 seconds later, something happens.

I don't know why there are people who think it's not slow. I wish there was a button I could push on my computer that made it run at a normal speed.

 

[Twin Rose]

How a program like PCGen can grind my computer to a halt is still something that boggles my mind and is the primary reason I'm not using it, and will be trying ETools instead.

I wish things weren't so black and white. If, for whatever reason, the Java and PCGen run slow on a computer doesn't mean that PCGen and E-Tools are the only options. There are tons of programs out there, each meant to do a specific task - from character generation to Campaign Management, and some that suite them all together. There is a rich market out there, as there should be, because competition and fair play breed quality. "Either free generator or E-Tools" means that there may well be no competition one day, and that leads to stagnation and lack of growth.

Just a couple of copper pieces.

 

[mattcolville]

I wish things weren't so black and white. If, for whatever reason, the Java and PCGen run slow on a computer doesn't mean that PCGen and E-Tools are the only options. There are tons of programs out there, each meant to do a specific task - from character generation to Campaign Management, and some that suite them all together. There is a rich market out there, as there should be, because competition and fair play breed quality. "Either free generator or E-Tools" means that there may well be no competition one day, and that leads to stagnation and lack of growth.

Just a couple of copper pieces.

I just want something that does what I need. I thought PCGen was it and you know, maybe it is, if it weren't so slow. It seems like an example of the bazaar gone horribly wrong.

 

[Henry]

A week ago I downloaded, not only the newest version of PCGen, but the newest version of JRE. The app is slow. Slow slow slow. I click on a selection and, roughly 5 to 7 seconds later, something happens.

Gah!

I hate to break it to you, Matt, but that's not normal. Even my Pentium II 233 with 128MB RAM runs it faster than that. Now, given that the startup time is abysmally slow (even Leo and Mynex will tell you that), the app will still run much faster than what you described on this machine. Much, Much faster. The app actually runs at a very manageable speed on my second, main PC - and that's on an Athlon XP1600.

By no means am I "dissing" you, but I am saying that I, as a user, don't have that kind of lag on the program when it is up and running.

P.S. - those Java-heads of yours - you ought to invite 'em to come on over and work on the program some. If they've got some good solutions, I'm sure Merton Monk would love to hear from 'em.

 

[Leopold]

I just want something that does what I need. I thought PCGen was it and you know, maybe it is, if it weren't so slow. It seems like an example of the bazaar gone horribly wrong.

It was a bazaar in the beginning but now with structured releases and code testing it has become a cathedral instead. Especially with the 3.0.0 stable version coming out which went through a full month of debugging and testing within only a small core group to get all the kinks out and then released to test and THEN sent for final publishing after it has been done.

Also, all the documentation has been rewritten to provide a guide map for the new people using PCGen, a walkthrough completed, a list of all the lines of code and examples of such and how to build the files included.

Yes in the beginning it was a bazaar with a new release sometimes coming every day or every 2 hrs. Now it's down to once a week and slowly sinking back to once every few weeks.

Control, stability, and documenation all help keep projects on track and moving smoothly to avoid the massive bazaar that can occur when things get out of hand..

 

[Leopold]

I hate to break it to you, Matt, but that's not normal. Even my Pentium II 233 with 128MB RAM runs it faster than that. Now, given that the startup time is abysmally slow (even Leo and Mynex will tell you that), the app will still run much faster than what you described on this machine. Much, Much faster. The app actually runs at a very manageable speed on my second, main PC - and that's on an Athlon XP1600.

I have it running on a p100 with 48mb of ram on win95. Does it run painfully slow? Your darn tootin. about 30-45 seconds to load up and run. This is a laptop that basically does all the combat stats and number I would need in a crunch if my main laptop fails.

The box I am using now is Win2k, P3/500, 320mb of ram, with JRE 1.4 and pcgen 2.7.3. IT takes approximately 11-13 seconds to start the application, 5 seconds to load the sources ( only load the core for me) and then start the program. If you have difficultly or long load times, turn off the feature "Load Sources at Startup" under the Settings>PCGen>Sources menu.

P.S. - those Java-heads of yours - you ought to invite 'em to come on over and work on the program some. If they've got some good solutions, I'm sure Merton Monk would love to hear from 'em. [/B]

we did and we would love all those interested to come on over. The more the merrier. We have about 20 developers part time to the project and maybe 5 full time. Merton or Mynex can provide more numbers as this is a guesstimate. There is about 10 people or more working on the .lst files part time with about 5 full timers pounding away. Mynex works double duty on the data files and java so I had to count him twice!

 

[mattcolville]

Gah!

I hate to break it to you, Matt, but that's not normal. Even my Pentium II 233 with 128MB RAM runs it faster than that. Now, given that the startup time is abysmally slow (even Leo and Mynex will tell you that), the app will still run much faster than what you described on this machine. Much, Much faster. The app actually runs at a very manageable speed on my second, main PC - and that's on an Athlon XP1600.

By no means am I "dissing" you, but I am saying that I, as a user, don't have that kind of lag on the program when it is up and running.

P.S. - those Java-heads of yours - you ought to invite 'em to come on over and work on the program some. If they've got some good solutions, I'm sure Merton Monk would love to hear from 'em.

I've got them working on other things.

But they've had the same experience. One's on a Sony laptop, the other has basically the same machine I've got.

Like I said, if there's a button somewhere I can press labeled "run faster" let me know, I'll press it. This is the only program I've got that does this. If you design a program (or a web page) that only runs well or looks good on machines configured like yours, you're going to get a lot of complaints.

 

[Ds Da Man]

Well, although it is slow to initially load, after it starts-up, it's really not that bad. I like it, thanks PC-Gen fellows, and please keep up the work.

 

[Aurianna]

PCGen slowness

Three primary reasons I've found that PCGen runs slowly:

1) Loading too many source files. If you don't need the content, don't load unnecessary data.

2) Java exceptions. "Non-fatal" errors from some of those .lst files will seriously slow you down, especially those sources that aren't Core, and thus haven't really been looked at in a while.

3) Complicated characters. I GUARANTEE that a multi-leveled, multiclassed, templated, loaded-down (equipment) character is going to take a LONG time to load/navigate. Especially on any screen that does a "qualify"check, such as class, feats, skills, etc.