How long would it take for the effects of massive radiation to show up?

[NeghVar]

Actually the radiation rules are now in the d20 Modern SRD. They can be found in the Arcana Creatures section:

http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/ArcanaCreatures.rtf

Specifically after the Nuclear Toxiderm - Radiation Sickness...

So what? It's a magic artifact, problem solved.

As for radiation rules, go the Wizards.com, the D20 Modern section. One of the web enhancements, IIRC, the one for the first book, has rules for radiation (as well as making new poisons, more vehicles, and maybe some weapons, I think). Thats what you're looking for.

Later!

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Actually the radiation rules are now in the d20 Modern SRD. They can be found in the Arcana Creatures section:

http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/ArcanaCreatures.rtf

Specifically after the Nuclear Toxiderm - Radiation Sickness...

Interesting... So I was close to the "official" version.

 

[Jack Daniel]

If you're Mr. Spock, you only get enough time to give your katra to Bones and say goodbye to Captain Kirk. If you're John Crichton, you'll have plenty of time to open a wormhole and destroy a dreadnaught, but you die pretty much right after that. For anybody else, I can't help you.

 

[3catcircus]

I'm DMing a throwaway game for a few of my friends, where we're really not too focused on realism or plot continuity. To give an example, the Hexblade has an antimatter cannon. Anyway, the group killed a Dolomite (from the Monsternomicon) and found inside an ornate breastplate and sword with a dull metal sheath. Both sword and armor are glowing with a uniformly bright cyan color. The sheath of the sword is made of lead.

Yeah, the items are made out of cesium. I'm evil.

Anyway, the question I have is how long would it take for such massive doses of radiation poisoning to show up? Fortitude saves are the order of the day, but does anyone have any ideas on how I should run this?

-Craer



EDIT: I did some more research, and it turns out the cesium is liquid at room temperature. Oops. What else could I use? The above question still applies.

It really depends upon three things: time, distance, shielding. Time: how long you are exposed to the item. Distance: how far away you are from it during the exposure. Shielding: What is between the item and you?

Radiation dose is a 1/r-squared function, where r is the distance between you and the item acting as a point source.

Now, assuming an acute dose rather than an accumulated dose: 400 - 1000 REM is pretty much almost always fatal. 1000 REM is always fatal within hours to days. 5000 REM is enough to instantly incapacitate someone.

Anything between roughly 50 REM and 400 REM will cause radiation sickness.

There are noticeable changes to the victim's blood around 25 REM.

Humans (real-life) receive roughly 360 milli rem per year, with astronauts, airlines pilots, and people living in Denver receiving a skosh more due to the decreased amount of atmospheric shielding between them and cosmic radiation.

Ok - enough of the physics - the d20 Modern SRD as was brought up in this thread seem to be pretty workable as-is, or you can increase the realism by modifying the tables based on time, distance and shielding.

 

[Agback]

Maybe not as much as you might think. Cesium has an atomic weight of 132.9 vs. 55 for Iron. So only about 2.4 times as much as an iron sword of equal size. I'd suspect that the scabbard weight might be annoying though. Lead has an atomic weight of 207, not that much less

Atomic weight is not what counts. It is a factor, but you have to take crystal form into account as well. It turns out that uranium has a specific gravity of 18.95, and lead of only 11.35. Iron is 7.86. According to my book of chemical data, caesium has a density of only 1.87 at SLTP--ie. it is a quarter the weight of iron. The 'notes' column adds "explosive on contact with water". Radiation hazard is not mentioned (though I guess you could obtain a more unstable isotope than the usual mixture).

Regards,


Agback

 

[Majere]

Hmmm
1) Its a game.. its YOUR game, make it up

2) GAH NONONO STOP IT too much pidgeon science

- Dont say things like "iron weighs more than lead" It all depends on how much you have, If I have a piece of lead with a mass of a tonne, and iron with a mass of 1 gramme then the lead weighs more than the iron in the same gravitational field. If I take the piece of iron to a neutorn star and leave the lead on earth then the iron weighs more than the lead. (which is a much more interesting state of affairs)
What you are talking about is the DENSITY, i.e. comparing the MASSESS of items of the same size made of different materials. The densit metals are invariabley transition metals due to a good packing density, low atomic radius and higer atmoics weights.
Cesium has a very low denstiy.. it will almost float on water dues to a primative cubic packing in the ions (Its BCC if I remeber last terms class).

-Radioactivity has nothing to do with atomic numder directly. There are radioactive isotopes of hydrogen (atomic number 1). Its to do with the balance of nucelons and binding energies. There appear to be patterns of stability and it is hypothesised that nucelons may exist in semistable shells not unlike electrons which leads to hopes of producing "stable" nuclei of superheavy atoms. Almost all elements have radioactive isotopes, however the more radiative ones, by virtue of emiiting more radiation, dont last as long. The majority of long halflife radioisotopes are gamma-emmiters.

-alpha and beta radiation is mostly harmless unless you inhale the radioisotope, they are too strongly ionising to penetrate more than a few centimeteres of air.

-I doubt we would die without exposure to radiation.. we may however stop evolving which is a much more interesting thought. I dont know of any life form that in anyway harnessess radiation in a biological process.. but It would be amazing if there were such a creature.

3) Yes I know I sound like a nerd and a loser, it comes with being a chemistry undergrad. Would be very interested to hear more about the biological effects of hyperexposure.


Majere
Shoots all the pidgeons.

 

[Agback]

G'day

I found the figures below at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jmoilane/nuclear/Fallout.html

Regards,


Agback

Here is the effects of radiation on a humans.

Below 100 rems
No obvious sickness occurs. There might be a fluctuation in white blood cell count, and may cause temporary male sterility.

100-200 rems
Mild symptoms occur. Blood and sperm forming tissues are affected. Mild nausea and vomiting might occur. Temporary male sterility. Loss of appetite, fatigue might last up to 4 weeks.

200-400 rems
Illness becomes increasingly severe, and significant mortality sets in. Onset of initial symptoms occur 1-6 hours and last 1-2 days. Nausea is universal and vomiting is 50% at 280 rems. After this a 7-14 day latency period sets in. Initial symptoms reoccur and also might include hair loss, fatigue, hemorrhage of the mouth, kidney. Susceptibility to infection is serious. At 300 rems the possibility of mortality without medical treatment increases to 10%. Possibility of permanent female sterility appears. Recovery takes around a month.

400-600 rems
Mortality rises steeply, from around 50% at 450 rems to 90% at 600 unless there is medical intervention. The symptoms listed for 200-400 rems increase in occurrence and severity, reaching 100% occurrence at 600 rems. When death occurs, it is usually 2-12 weeks after exposure and results from infection and hemorrhage. Recovery takes several months to a year, blood cell counts may take even longer to return to normal. Female sterility becomes probable.

600-1000 rems
Survival depends on stringent medical intervention. Bone marrow is almost completely destroyed and will require a transfusion of the bone marrow. Death usually follows 1-4 weeks from infection and internal bleeding. The recovery might never completely happen and if it does will take years.

Above 1000
Above 1000 will cause severe intestinal and metabolic problems which include severe diarrhea, intestinal bleeding, and loss of fluids. Death will follow in a few hours from circulatory collapse.

From 1000-5000 the onset time drops from 30 minutes to 5 minutes. Following the initial severe nausia a period of apparent well-being will last a few hours to a few days often called the walking ghost phase. The terminal phase will last 2-10 days. In rapid succession prostration, diarrhea, anorexia, and fever follow. Death is certain, often preceded by delirium and coma. Medical treatment is only to relieve suffering.

Above 5000 rems metabolic disruption is severe enough to interfere with the nervous system. Immediate disorientation and coma will result, onset is within seconds to minutes. Convulsions occur which may be controlled with sedation. Victim may linger for up to 48 hours before dying.

The U.S. military assumes that 8000 rads of fast neutron radiation (from a neutron bomb) will immediately and permanently incapacitate a person.

 

[Psion]

2) GAH NONONO STOP IT too much pidgeon science

I dunno if you are meaning to call me a pidgeon.

- Dont say things like "iron weighs more than lead" It all depends on how much you have, If I have a piece of lead with a mass of a tonne, and iron with a mass of 1 gramme then the lead weighs more than the iron in the same gravitational field. If I take the piece of iron to a neutorn star and leave the lead on earth then the iron weighs more than the lead. (which is a much more interesting state of affairs)
What you are talking about is the DENSITY,

Which is why I discussed specific gravity (which is basically density scaled to water) earlier in this thread, and the point was already acknowledged.

-Radioactivity has nothing to do with atomic numder directly.

Ah, but that's not what I said.

There is a curve that describes the most stable AN/AW nucleus arrangement across the periodic chart. As atomic number goes up, the ratio of AN/AW goes down for the most stable isotope, meaning that as you get into the higher AN's, you will find that the more common and stable isotopes of elements are radioactive.

Which means that higher AN elements are more likely to have naturally occrring radioisotopes. Which is what I said.

-alpha and beta radiation is mostly harmless unless you inhale the radioisotope, they are too strongly ionising to penetrate more than a few centimeteres of air.

I also said that alpha won't penetrate the skin. Beta -- don't feel so safe. It's also low penetrating, but no so much as alpha. When I was doing reactor training, we got shown the infamous "butt book", which had pictures of a graft on a man who made the mistake of putting a beta source in his back pocket. It was pretty gory.

So next time you are out shooting pidgeons, consider the possibility that:
- Said pidgeon is keeping things simple for a general audience, or,
- Said pidgeon is referring to something that will be in a class you haven't hit yet.

 

[Sejs]

Living long enough to get good at smithing it might be a problem though...

Not if you're a construct or undead, it's not.

^_^

 

[s/LaSH]

Consider that an adventurer with a bucketload of hit points may have built up some natural immunity to, well, just about everything (and it's known that you can build up an immunity of sorts to radiation - not a blocker so much as a quick-DNA-repair molecule, but childhood exposure can indeed increase your radiation tolerance; also, the crews of nuclear submarines are so well-shielded they suffer more cancer risk when they come out into common sunlight). Thus, regular saves and a lead scabbard might be good enough.

It's also interesting that you've got this radioactive blade, presumably quite hot and capable of inflicting nasty burns upon its targets, which has to be kept freezing to retain its shape... thus cancelling itself out.