D&D 5E How many classess/subclasses is too much?

[LuisCarlos17f]

If, at last, the mystic class is published, you can bet somebody, maybe homebred or 3rdP, will publish the psionic version of the occult pathfinder classes (kineticist, medium, mesmerist, occultist, psychic and spiritualist). I like the concept of the psionic ardent like a potential rival-ally or "friendenemy", a love-hate relation, of clerics and other standard divine spellcasters because they are like "freelance workers".

I miss the vestige pact magic (I imagine vestiges' gifts as mini-prestige class or monster template class could be changing each day as wearing a different suit) and the martial adepts (Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords) (It is curious but I imagine samurai, shinobi and shinobi as martial adepts, class with martial maneuvers, and also the shadow assassin or the gladiator from Dark Sun, the soulknive would be a psionic-martial adept hybrid class, and the warlord as martial adept with maneuvers of the white raven school).

 

[Charlaquin]

I would like to see a third level above class. Maybe call it archetype or something. The “big 4” classes could be the archetypes, which the other classes fall into, and each have subclasses. I’d also like it if more subclasses offered build choices, like Battlemaster Maneuvers and Totem Barbarian Totems. In such a setup, I would prefer the number of classes and archetypes to stay about where they are, but would be quite happy with expanding the number of subclasses.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

See the PHB? Yeah, add another one or two subclasses to some of them to bring them to 4. That's it. That's where it should have stopped. There doesn't NEED to be any more than 4 subclasses for each class...tops. What SHOULD they have done? Put more info/ideas into the DMG to help a DM create their own specific subclasses for their own specific world. I'll take playing in a DM's game where the other PC's are "A human Fighter, Witchblade; a human Barbarian, Swampie; a halfling Rogue, Shadow-Weaver; and a dwarven Cleric of Earth" over the standard "whatever-we-officially-have-now". I want UNIQUENESS...not variety, per se. All the extra classes/subclasses do is edge 5e ever closer to over-saturation of Player "options" just like 3.x did with, well, everything.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Undrave]

Never enough!

There's still plenty of room for cool stuff. I think its disingenuous to count UAs though.

Here's what I can remember off the top of my head. I probably forgot a few...

5 Barbarian : Bezerker, Totem, Zealot, Ancestral, Battlerager

5 Bard : Lore, Valor, Swords, Glamour, Whisper

10 Cleric : Life, Nature, Knowledge, Light, Storm, Trickery, Forge, Grave, Order, War

5 Druid : Land, Moon, Shepperd, Dream, Spore

7 Fighter : Champion, Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Purple Dragon, Cavalier, Samurai, Arcane Archer

6 Monk : Open Hand, Shadow, Elemental, Drunken, Sun Soul, Kensei

5 Paladin : Vengeance, Protection, Ancestor, Crown, Redemption

4 Ranger : Hunter, Beastmaster, Monster Slayer, Gloomstalker

6 Rogue : Thief, Assasin, Arcane Trickster, Mastermind, Inquisitive, Scout

4 Sorcerer : Wild, Dragon, Storm, Divine, Shadow

5 Warlock : Fey, Fiend, Great Old One, Celestial, Hexblade

10 Wizard : School (8), War, Bladesinger

73 total subclass

So far I can see some weakness in number of choices...

 

[GlassJaw]

Definitely don't need many more classes, or maybe no more at all. A class should cover a wide range of archetypes AND be mechanically unique. The test for a new class concept meeting those criteria should be steep.

There can be an infinite number of subclasses with little to no harm to 5E. Subclasses are fairly noninvasive. Unlike prestige classes from 3ed for example, they contribute a small percentage to a class's overall power. They are also easy to tweak if there is a balance issue.

 

[5ekyu]

I'm not sure how many classess/subclasses there are for 5e now. Between the splatbooks, and UA, it seems like there are well over 100. At what point, if any, does it become just too much for you. Has it got to the point where there are so many subclasses that they are stumbling over each other in theme and function? Has niche protection essentially been lost (if that's important to you)? Can there never be enough, and any variation regardless of how slight is a good thing because choice is always good?

My personal druthers would be for the dedign plan to follow one of two possible schemas.

1 - Amplifier - each class gets 3-5 sub-classes that each take one aspect if the main class and amplify it. Good example is druid where land amplifies spells and moon amplifies wildshape.

2 - Diversity - each class gets 5 sub-classes each keying off a different ability score than the primary - trending to make each class have the ability to choose sub-class to suit secondary svore.

That said, that is not followed now, so...

But I dont see a real need for more than 5 sub-classes per class.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Definitely don't need many more classes, or maybe no more at all. A class should cover a wide range of archetypes AND be mechanically unique. The test for a new class concept meeting those criteria should be steep.

Frankly, existing classes fail those criteria. And classes that have been missing from the game for 5 years now, pass them easily - ironically, the most marginal of those is the next in line to see print: the Artificer. The Warlord, which had the equivalent of 7 archetypes in only 2 years, even when tightly restricted to the leader role, and the Psion, which could draw on all previous psionic classes for archetypes, both pass with flying colors.
The ranger, sorcerer, barbarian, and (it pains me to say) druid, all crash & burn by comparison.

 

[Salthorae]

Never enough!

4 Sorcerer : Wild, Dragon, Storm, Divine

72 total subclass

So far I can see some weakness in number of choices...

Sorcerer is 5 - you left out Shadow

Either way, it feels left out in the dark though I know it isn’t.

Ranger is the poor lonely soul with only 4 and only 3 optimal choices.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What SHOULD they have done? Put more info/ideas into the DMG to help a DM create their own specific subclasses for their own specific world.

I would like to see a third level above class. Maybe call it archetype or something.

We could use fewer general-consumption sub-classes, and more setting-specific, after-1st-level alternatives, like Prestige Classes. The PDK, Battlerager, Bladesinger, and quite a few other extant sub-classes would've made more sense as restricted-entry, race/place/organization-specific PrCs.

 

[TwoSix]

The more the merrier. Thank goodness there's a thriving homebrew community to counteract WotC's glacial release schedule.